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ST Why Snoke IS Darth Plagueis

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth Formidious, Dec 19, 2015.

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Do you think Snoke will be revealed as Darth Plagueis?

  1. Yes

    274 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No

    274 vote(s)
    50.0%
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  1. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Hey everyone, this my first thread on Jedi Council Forum. I've been a massive fan of Star Wars for as long as I can remember and here's my take on the big question. ;)

    Why I think Snoke is Darth Plagueis:
    • He bares very similar resemblance to Darth Plagueis' Muun species
    • Snoke appears to have an injury to his mandible and around the lower jaw region, similar to Darth Plagueis after his attempted assassination in the EU
    • Rey's staff appears to be almost identical to Darth Plagueis' lightsaber staff, the staff also appears too frequently and I am certain will have significance later on
    • The big one: the background theme music is the same as when Darth Sidious was telling Anakin Skywalker the tale of 'Darth Plagueis the wise'
    • Perhaps Darth Plagueis did learn to defeat death and lived in secrecy. With all his wisdom, he may have foretold the empires downfall and when to finally reveal himself
    • I believe Snoke was confirmed to be 7 foot tall in reality, which is in keeping with the height of the Muun species
    • Another big clue: Plagueis seduced a young Palpatine to the dark side when he manipulated him to kill his father. After Kylo Ren killed his father, Snoke mentioned that it's time to complete his training. This could be reference to Snoke transforming Ren into a Sith, if he is indeed Darth Plagueis. :emperor:
    So here is my quick take on the big rumour. What are your opinions on this? :)
     
    Scott109, jaqen, eukaryote and 31 others like this.
  2. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    "The Supreme Leader is wise" = Darth Plagueis the wise confirmed.
     
  3. AllAboutThatMace

    AllAboutThatMace Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    If Snoke actually is a character we've heard of, then he's Plagueis. I still think its possible he's a new character entirely though, not connected to the Sith
     
  4. TheRevanchist

    TheRevanchist Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Never thought for the last one, but it actually makes sense (Palps/Ren analogy by killing their father).

    I think, that at least Snoke character was been inspired by Darth Plagueis. The background music surely isn't a coincidence.

    I think that they haven't definitely decided yet, so at the moment is Darth Schrodinger's Cat. But there is a good chance that Snoke is Plagueis, and most likely they are looking at the public reactions to it.
     
  5. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015

    Ah yes! I knew I had missed one! For me, that really does confirm it.
     
    Sitara likes this.
  6. Phasma's Armor Polish

    Phasma's Armor Polish Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2015
    Plagueis = Sith
    Snoke = Not Sith

    Simples
     
  7. TheRevanchist

    TheRevanchist Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2012
    After Palps took his title, Plagueis might have decided that he can reach his goal without being a Sith. Sith is a philosophy after all, and a person can change his philosophy.
     
  8. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Also, the last one is interesting since it opens up a wealth of opportunities. If Snoke is Plagueis, he may just train Ren to keep the ones he loved from dying and to save people from death. Ren is suffering from massive internal conflict and if he does return to the lightside then prehaps we may see a Han Solo return too!

    But again, that's a massive presumption. [face_thinking]
     
  9. HeartoftheMaw

    HeartoftheMaw Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2013
    While it seems to be a relatively well-supported theory that would be a nice way of tying together the ST and PT, Snoke is probably an entirely new character. I think we'll be satisfied either way.
     
    Darth Dominikkus and V-2 like this.
  10. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    "Hi galaxy, I am Darth Plagueis, a sith lord, I am going to take over the republic. Please don't revolt" [face_plain]

    Also, if he is Darth Plagueis, he deserves a big reveal in Episode 8 rather than immediately. I am a fan of the Sith as you can probably guess!
     
    Sitara, mperrotti34, KalThor and 4 others like this.
  11. Darth Krayt

    Darth Krayt Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2015
    There are several clues in this film that point to him being Plagueis. The line "Supreme leader is wise" was so random and so out of place that it must surely mean something. Perhaps they are mocking the Plagueis-fanboys? lol
     
    Darth Geezy and Sitara like this.
  12. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    If he was a head Darth, he would've said so. Darth Sidious appeared before the Trade Federation openly as a Sith Lord and using his Sith name, and he never kept Maul's name a secret nor Vader's even. Snoke if anything wants to be a "Darth" but there is no mention of the Sith from him, only Maz brings up the Sith in a past tense and a prior form of evil along with the Empire and the current incarnation of evil, The First Order.
     
    DarthIshyZ and Lobot_the_Jedi like this.
  13. hippie1kenobi

    hippie1kenobi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Oh, ffs...not another 18 months.
     
  14. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    But don't you feel that this was all to build up the suspense and speculation. And also, Sidious kept his identity well hidden during the reign of the empire, we only found the true extent of his power when he was alone in his chambers with Vader and Luke, even telling his brainwashed-loyal bodyguards to leave. After the galaxy witnessed the terror of the empire, Snoke is wise to keep his true identity well under wraps.
     
  15. TheRevanchist

    TheRevanchist Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2012
    He got 'killed', so he might not want to identify as Sith anymore. With him being immortal, he doesn't need to obey the rule of two anymore, ect ect.

    Basically, he might be a reformed Darth Plagueis, who has decided to create his own order of dark force.
     
  16. Gamma626

    Gamma626 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 6, 2014
    You'll hear about it until the end of time if they don't have a line that straight up says "I AM NOT DARTH PLAGUEIS." and even then, you'll have people saying he's lying, etc.
     
    BadCane, MeBeJedi, cwustudent and 9 others like this.
  17. Ian passman

    Ian passman Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Plagueis isn't a muun. Nothing about him from the previous EU is canonical anymore, so it can't be used as evidence that Snoke is that character. Staff, species, height, none of that is substantive.

    At the same time, because he no longer possesses any of those traits, then there's no reason Snoke couldn't be Plagueis. Except that whole rule of two thing. (Why would he allow a bunch of force using kids to run around and become potential rivals?)
     
    joelt likes this.
  18. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015
    Its possible but I still lean to Snoke getting his power from that outer reaches of the galaxy stuff or him being from there and knowing the time was right to make his move.
     
    alucasfinch, Alienware and joelt like this.
  19. BlueHenDave

    BlueHenDave Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Palpatine said to Aankin only one found the ability to cheat death. In the Star Wars world we have already seen this play out with force ghost(Yoda, Ben, Anakin) Perhaps Palpatine was referring to this ability and not really retaining a physical form.

    Perhaps Snoke(Plagueis) is really just a force ghost and is influencing Ren from the spiritual world. Perhaps becoming a force ghost is just not for jedi

    The only hole in my theory is that Han and Leia seem to know him from comments made in TFA.
     
    voices77 likes this.
  20. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2014
    I think it is a good possibility. Snoke's demeanor and vision seemed like Plagueis to me. The passages from the Tarkin novel about Plagueis seem to resemble Snoke's philosophy. There was the Kylo Ren quote about him being wise. And for me the clearest hint was the musical similarities between Snoke's screen time and the opera scene from episode 3.
     
    Darth Dreadwar and Trikuza23 like this.
  21. StarKiller81

    StarKiller81 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2014
    I knew people wouldn't let this go. Why would they care to even hide that he is Plagueis if it's true? The average fan won't even care.
     
    Thomo93, Palpatine77, nld3 and 4 others like this.
  22. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    The Emperor used his powers in Lords of the Sith pretty openly I believe. Anyway, there would be no reason to keep Darth a secret to the Imperial remnant he absolutely controls and dictates. It would've been a plus being openly a Darth. Hux seems in on the Force related stuff going on between Snoke and Kylo, its not a secret that Snoke is his master. Both Hux and Kylo appear to vie for Snoke's graces, Kylo(Anakin/Vader) for the Force and Hux(Tarkin) for the military. Vader was openly Darth Vader during the Galactic Empire. I don't think it was much a secret for those who knew what Darth meant. No one in the Empire needed to know Palpatine was Darth Sidious though. It is likely ,am sure some Dark Side adepts knew who he truly was and some Jedi survivors. Palpatine became reclusive from the general public soon after he became Emperor so he could concentrate on doing Sith stuff. Snoke is a wretched looking creature of some kind, he did have the fortune of looking like a harmless human male running for public office. I just do not see anything remotely secret about him, it spretty straightforward that Snoke is leading the First Order and the Master of Kylo Ren his dark enforcer. Anything else would've been out've the bag the moment the Starkiller fired and destroyed the New Republic's current capital. Presumably it also wiped out their fleet but we don't see it unless the New Republic's fleet were on those planets. The Resistance was its own militia(its still basically the Rebel Alliance and Network of Rebels) is in a shadow war with the First Order. The New Republic was basically like Valorum's Republic and there was some kinda armistice and peace treaty(Galactic Concordance) signed between them and the First Order. Leia(who is obviously Force attuned) and Han(who in this movie is a believer) know Snoke is a dark Sider, so again there isnt much secrecy involved. It is possible Luke even confronted Snoke at some point as Snoke is no secret to Leia or Han. The movie deliberately did not tell us much of anything, so to cash in on later.

    I would more think Snoke wants to be a Sith but there is no grand design plan, seems more he;'s got to get revenge on Luke the last of the Jedi and destroy the New Republic and Resistance. I mean, he could be near enough to actually already be one in all but name but at this point no I do not think of him as a Sith. He lacks the feel of a Sith Lord. There no Rule of Two mentioned. Knights of Ren, actually means Knights of Kylo Ren, he's the master, they're his men for all we know they could've been fellow former Jedi students we do not know how he got them and they were absent in the movie except for a flashback. This Kylo Ren name change seems to be the movie's version of the Sith. There is something of a Nom Anor to Snoke.
     
  23. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
  24. kegs202

    kegs202 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2013
    I'm going with the theory that he's plagueis as well
     
    Jobertus likes this.
  25. Death-T

    Death-T Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Are you sure the music from the Plagueis scene in ROTS and the scene you're talking about from TFA are the same? If that's the case that is a nice catch. I'm seeing the movie again tonight, I'll have to pay more attention to that. Granted that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but still.

    I posted a lot in a Plagueis thread a couple years ago when the book came out, and I'd still love to see that happen. I feel like it would tie the three sagas together, and if the new writers have to one-up the old villains then I'd like it to be Plagueis rather some new character who somehow is more powerful than Sidious and Vader. Though at this point I don't really care too much whether Snoke is Plagueis or not. I'm sure we'll be treated to an interesting story either way. Just as a fan of the Plagueis book it'd be cool to see his legacy realized in the film universe, and it's funny that episode 7 has come out and Plagueis is still a possibility (at least to us unknowing fans). I think the Plagueis debate will finally come to an end in the next film--it'll make sense to build up Snoke and his story going into the final film of the trilogy. So we should find out whether Snoke is Plagueis or just another big bad guy in the ep. 8.
     
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