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Why was Vader under Grand Moff Tarkin?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by crashdown, Jan 23, 2005.

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  1. crashdown

    crashdown Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2003
    It always bugged me that it appears that Vader was a Subordinate of Grand Moth Tarkin when Vader was on the Death Star. I alway thouth that being the number two man of the Sith would make him the number two man in the Empire?



    GK edit: I always wondered why John Williams didn't write a theme for the Grand Moth. Would have been sweet like the Moth Theme from FOTR.
     
  2. Wolf3118

    Wolf3118 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 11, 2003
    ...Moff
     
  3. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    Tarkin really made the Death Star and other Imperial weapons a reality. He is a military genius and because of his work he is in command of things when the Emperor is not around. Palpatine created the Empire so he is the the Emperor. The Death Stars consolidated the Empire and kept in line and that is because of Tarkin, so he is next in line. Vader defeated the Jedi and acts as a military commander and so he is third in line after Grand Moff Tarkin.

    That is just the way I see it.

    -Seldon
     
  4. BillBrasky

    BillBrasky Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2004
    I think that Vader is the 2nd in command, but Tarkin was the Commander of the Death Star. So while Vader is on the Death Star he is in Tarkin's command
     
  5. Darth_Silvio

    Darth_Silvio Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 22, 2005
    IMHO...

    Vader was under orders from the Emperor to temporarily defer to Tarkin until the Battle Station was complete and fully tested, similar to how he sent Darth Maul to aid the Trade Federation in TPM. Tarkin was a competent leader and there was no need for the Emperor to micromanage the project by having Vader usurp Tarkin's command (as was necessary in ROTJ). It seems that some of Tarkin's underlings thought this deference extended to them as well, which Vader was quick to demonstrate was clearly not the case with General Motti...[face_devil]
     
  6. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    NO NO NO!
    The Death Star was under a triumvirate with Vader, Tarkin and Motti.

    they were all EQUAL but Vader was higher up as he was the emperor's right hand.

    this didn;t work so for DSII they put in jerjerod
     
  7. NeoBaggins

    NeoBaggins Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2003
    "Why was Vader under Grand Moth Tarkin?"

    So he doesnt have to do all the work. Or, atleast thats why I like to be on the bottom.
     
  8. BauconBatista

    BauconBatista Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 24, 2004
    Because Grand MOFF Tarkin was too busy dating that Gungan chick.
     
  9. Chaotic_Serenity

    Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Well, Vader would have to be higher up on the Emperor's list if only because he's a Force user. I think the Emperor tends to see Force sensitives as superior to other lifeforms (reference, anyone?), outside of whether or not they're human.

    I tend to see Vader and Tarkin on the same level of "importance" militarily/politically to the Emperor, although with the Jedi gone, I think Vader's significance is starting to wane. Vader is more or less the Emperor's right hand man, the one he relies on the most to carry out his orders. However, Tarkin is a military genius (not that Vaderkin isn't either), and his favor toward massive weapons and "rule of fear" coincide quite a bit with the emperor's personal beliefs, so he's given a high command. And particularly, since the Death Star was his baby, Tarkin is in control on that particular station.
     
  10. Iron_Fist

    Iron_Fist Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2003
    The ability to do a few party tricks with some mysterious Force does not make a great military commander. Vader's kind of like the stooge who does the dirty work (i.e. the Jedi Purge), whereas Tarkin does all the hard thinking and thus is ranked above. He was the first of the Grand Moffs for a reason, and the Death Star was his pet project. :)

    I_F
     
  11. Chaotic_Serenity

    Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 10, 2004
    I didn't say Vader was a great military commander because of the Force. I think it was mentioned somewhere, in some novel, that Palpatine felt Force users were simply superior individuals. But since that could be EU, I'll overlook it.

    But still, how is Vader not a good military commander? In the PT, as Anakin Skywalker during the Clone Wars, he showed exceptional tactical abilities. He was wiping out command ships at the age of nine, and wiping out entire fleets as a commander at the age of 20-22. In the OT, he predicts and often foils rebel plans at most turns, sometimes by even luring them out by using their own tricks against them. Vader's tactics are brutish, but are the works of an intelligent man. Tarkin may be better, yes, but that doesn't make Vader poorly skilled.
     
  12. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa

    Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2002
    It was never stated that Lord Vader wasn't a great influence in the Empire, because he was, but all command positions are given on accord of deserving them. Seldon is absolutely right in describing Moff Tarkin's roll in the Death Star. He's someone that the Emporer couldn't afford having in power, so he was placed second in command of the Station. Vader's place of being third in command isn't exactly a less-vital roll, either. Vader is over all command on the vessel, and could easily change whatever he desired, given Tarkin wouldn't stop it.
     
  13. BrotherTheFirst

    BrotherTheFirst Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2005
    I've got some problems with Vader being referred to as third in command but I?m not sure how to state my argument.

    I just don't see how Vader's previous actions would lead him to answering to Tarkin on the Death Star?

    Tarkin and his achievements as a military genius don?t seem to outweigh Vader and his ties to the Emperor.
     
  14. Darthdias

    Darthdias Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2004
    A simple answer is that Tarkin isn't exactly Vader's superior but he can act dominating because Vader has no power over him. The Star Wars Insignia page says that a Grand Moff takes orders only from the Emperor. So given that Tarkin had nothing to fear from Vader, he could safely reinforce his control of the Death Star.
     
  15. Chaotic_Serenity

    Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Hmm. I must have misunderstood your comment on command, sorry about that.

    I wouldn't exactly say "third in command," myself, at least not over all. (I don't think he's fallen that far *quite* yet.) Third in command would suggest inferiority to Tarkin's position. Vader merely cannot influence him any more than Tarkin can him. The DS is Tarkin's baby, so it's his "territory," so to speak. I'm sure Tarkin would be expected to defer if he was on Vader's Executor.

    Now, this isn't to say Vader's power wasn't waning in ANH. Obviously, the emperor's use for him has more or less met its ends more or less because Vader's campaign against the Jedi was so successful. He's a victim of his own power, so to speak. That's partly why Tarkin's favor and power seems to grow while Vader is still relegated to the backdrop. But certainly, he's powerful enough as an individual, and more importantly, as a visual symbol of the empire, that it's not beneficial yet to the emperor to be rid of him.
     
  16. Saberwielder315

    Saberwielder315 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2004
    The thing is, The first Death Star was Tarkins project, therefor he was in charge of it. Vader was probably there by order of the emperor to oversee it. However, Tarkin was in complete control. When the second Death star was beeing built it was a mere Commander in charg of the operation. That is why Vader and The Emperor went to go oversee it's completion.
     
  17. Hollywood_Skywalker

    Hollywood_Skywalker Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Tarkin was the Commander of the Death Star. Therefore when Vader was on the Death Star, he was under Tarkin.
     
  18. General Kenobi

    General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 1998
    Vader is not an Imperial Officer. He is outside the military command structure. He defers to Tarkin at times because his mission is not to command the Death Star, but to track down the stolen plans (so that Tarkin can then operate the Death Star at the Emperor's whim).

    Note the times when Vader dictates the action:

    ? regarding Obi-Wan:

    "I must face him. Alone."

    ? regarding the Falcon:

    Vader wants to use the homing beacon to find the Rebel Base. Tarkin is obviously unconfortable with it, but defers to Vader.

    ? regarding Leia:

    "Terminate her. Immediately."

    "She may yet be of some use to us."
     
  19. Saberwielder315

    Saberwielder315 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Hey just as a friendly note, hollywood, read other posts before you post man, I had just said what yousaid and it was kind of a pointless post.
     
  20. BrotherTheFirst

    BrotherTheFirst Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2005
    What about?

    LEIA: "Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board."
     
  21. sithlord85

    sithlord85 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2004
    well I think the Emperor would have wanted vader there to oversee the progress and keep the officers in line. Tarkin had main control over the death star.
     
  22. DarthDevastatus

    DarthDevastatus Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Dec 6, 2004
    Vader isn't "under" Tarkin. The Death Star is Tarkins command and Vader is just showing respect. He's really only there to question the Princess. Other than that he's just along for the ride. It's obvious that Vader and Tarkin talk openly with each other so they must see each other as "equals" under the Empire pecking order. I personally never thought much of the idea that just because Vader is a Sith that he is 2nd in command. I can't see Palpatine letting ANYONE be second. Remember what Lucas said in the commentary for ANH, that the only real heirarchy in the Empire is the Emperor and then everybody else. Vader is no exception.
     
  23. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2004
    Grand Moff Tarkin is a genius,Vader most likely admires that in him and decides to take his advice.I dont ever recall Tarkin truly ordering him around.

    Yes,He destroys Alderaan,but Vader probably doesn't really care about it.

    Yes,He tells Vader to stop choking the General,Vader says "As you wish" And stops by Tarkin's request. Vader probably figures Tarkin has plans for him.

    Vaders truly in charge,you know why,cause he's got the lightsaber and the force,Tarkin,as cool as he is,Is just a withering old man with alot of Military power.If Vader had a problem with him,he'd be dead.
     
  24. Ben R

    Ben R Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2000

    [image=http://gojirastomp.tripod.com/gfacts/mothrab.jpg]

    "Grand Moth Tarkin" [face_laugh]

    [image=http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00006FD9H.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg]
     
  25. Darthdias

    Darthdias Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2004
    "Vaders truly in charge,you know why,cause he's got the lightsaber and the force,Tarkin,as cool as he is,Is just a withering old man with alot of Military power.If Vader had a problem with him,he'd be dead."

    Tarkin doesn't answer to Vader, only the Emperor. Vader would never be allowed to kill Tarkin without the Emperor directly ordering him to do so (expect if Tarkin attempted treason, which is one of the reasons Vader was even there in the first place).

     
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