Why was Vader under Grand Moff Tarkin?

I think its simply one of the inconsistencies that exist in ANH. Because it was the first Star Wars movie, Lucas didn't have the full background of the story worked out. This quote demonstrates that (in ANH) Vader was supposed to Palpatine's fearful henchman, not really his second-in-command.

LEIA: "Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board."

 

I also believe Vader was not under Tarkin, he was separated from the normal Imperial chain of command.

Vader was overseeing the DeathStar and the officers. The only reason he does, what Tarkin wants, is that Tarkin makes good decisions. If Tarkin was ever to step out of line or decide to act against the will of the Emperor, Tarkin would have failed Vader for the last and only time (if you get my point).

 

Vader was only overseeing the construction of the 2nd Death Star in ROTJ not ANH. Vader is only on the first one because they're holding the princess and his job is to find the rebel base. Tarkin decides to kill two birds with one stone. Show the power of the Death Star and get the princess to tell Vader the location of the hidden base. Vader has nothing to do with Tarkins little toy and even tells them that it's nothing compared to the force.
IMO some people mistake Vader and Tarkins courtesy towards each other as some sort of indication that Vader is following Tarkins orders. I think the only real thing that we're seeing with Vaders relationship with the Imperials in ANH is all the Emperors evil henchman finally having the power to do all the evil things thier black hearts desire and working together to make it happen.

 

I think General Kenobi more or less hit the nail on the head.

Vader does not really fit in anywhere in the Imperial power structure. He probably doesn't enjoy being made to hang around on the Death Star either. But he knows he's not going to help matters by screwing around with the bureaucrats, so his time on the Death Star is probably largely spent
(a) figuring out his next move
(b) awaiting orders from the Emperor
(c) being an imposing presence and making sure none of the bureaucrats try to go over Palpatine's head

I would imagine his official function there is just to be the Emperor's eyes, ears and hands, and act in his stead. It's Tarkin's turf, as delegated by Palpatine, so Vader knows his place -- but that doesn't stop him from acting on his own initiative if need be, and being his own man.

I mean, for example, nobody's going to ask him to fill out forms or anythin'.




Rick McCallum loves you!

 

Ya, I doubt anyone would survive asking Vader to fill out paper work. It would probably end with a choke or a lightsaber to the head.

 

Moff Tarkin was just as evil as Vader was, perhaps even more so. Hitler was no Sith, and he was just as evil as Palpatine too. Just because one does not use the Force does not mean they cannot be evil too.

 

OK..OK, Please no more jokes about MOTH. So I made a Type-O....big deal. Anyway, what is a Moff?? Moth sound so much better....don't you think?

 

"I dont ever recall Tarkin truly ordering him around."


Then recall better - "This bickering is pointless. Vader, Release him." "As you wish".

And "As you wish" sounds pretty darned subordinate.



Will someone please change the title of the first post so we can stop making fun of it. Moth, that's great! Was he related to Mon MOTHma????

 

Mon MOFFma. Like mama... with an F.

 

Yes, I agree....are there any Mods out there? Please, correct my error. Change Grand Moth Tarkin to Grand Moff Tarkin........

..........[back on topic]

When the first Star Wars film came out I'm not sure that Lucas had Vader's role firmed up for the next movies. Lucas may not have figured out the relationship between the Emperor and Vader yet. However, I may be wrong. Does anyone know the history on this?

 

"When the first Star Wars film came out I'm not sure that Lucas had Vader's role firmed up for the next movies. Lucas may not have figured out the relationship between the Emperor and Vader yet. However, I may be wrong. Does anyone know the history on this? "

Well going by the ANH novelisation, which is based on the shooting script, I can add this.

The emperor is descrided as somewhat powerless, that the bureocrats and toadies cut the emperor off from the people and that they used his isolation to get as much power as they could. So the emperor still got to power by using the corruption in the senate but once there it seems that others are now runing the show.
Nowhere is the emperor described as a Sith, but Darth Vader is stated to be "one of the Dark Lords of the Sith" or something like that. So there is a hint that there are other Siths apart from Vader. Vader is also much more rude to Tarkin, originally he said the "..don't be too proud.." line to Tarkin and in his thoughts he looks down on Tarkin and only sees him as someone that he can use and then get rid off.

In some of the earlier drafts Vader is very much out for himself and the other Siths, that he uses the empire to get power but when the time is right he and the other Siths will take over.

So I got the impression that the emperor was not a Sith in the begining and this was probably changed to ESB.

Regards
Nordom

 

Vader was with Tarkin because the Emperor sent Vader there to make sure Tarkin did not try to take over the Empire and the Galaxy.

Vader is in a higher rank in the Empire then Tarkin Just everyones infomation.

 

"I think its simply one of the inconsistencies that exist in ANH. Because it was the first Star Wars movie, Lucas didn't have the full background of the story worked out. This quote demonstrates that (in ANH) Vader was supposed to Palpatine's fearful henchman, not really his second-in-command."

Why do you think that? In my eyes, Vader IS the Emperor's henchman. A guy who is used as an enforcer of Palpatine's will but who doesn't have any political power. Definitely not the secound in command. That would be a rank, and Vader has no rank. He stands outside of the chain of command.

And that makes him all the more useful. No imperial knows were he fits into the command structure and thus they don't know how to treat him. In short: he makes most people uneasy, and that was one of his tasks. To strike fear in the imperials.

To answer the orginal question: No, Tarkin doesn't outrank Vader since Vader has no rank. He is an outsider employed by the Emperor and answer only to him. Their is a mutual relation between Tarkin and Vader, they both have no influence over the other. in the presence of politians, Vader is only a bystander and possibly also the Emperor's messanger (like in RoTJ). But Tarkin can't give Vader orders either (unless he crossed Tarkin's juristiction, like when he shocked Motti). Vader was fully free to be his own man and even had his own tie-fighter sqadron on the station.

It's a bit complicated. I would say Tarkin is the more powerful but their is no subordinate-superior relation between them. They seem to treat etchother as equals in their private chats.

 

I think that Tarkin is rightfully in charge of the Death Star, and Vader's mission to track down the plans, an assignment received personally from the Emperor, has lead him to the Death Star. While there, he's sort of observing the finalization of the construction and it's inital implementation, probably making sure Tarkin doesn't get any delusions of grandeur. So at least on the Death Star, he's outside the chain of command, but I don't think that's necessarily true for his role in the entire Imperial Military.

 

"Lord Vader is functioning as the Emperor's proxy and representative in this instance. To all those on the Death Star, he is the Emperor's voice. Tarkin runs the show, but Lord Vader is there as the ultimate authority if he needs to take action in the name of the Emperor."

Not true, dude. Not true by a long shot. Vader is ONLY there to question the princess. You folks need to get rid of this "Vader is badass" mentality. He's pathetic. He is a shell of what he WAS. So much potential until he CHOSE to be evil. Guys like Tarkin and the others on the Death Star are the REAL bad guys. These guys are evil to thier very core and I think that's the point. Tarkin NEVER once refered to Vader when he made HIS decision to destroy Alderann AND he also did it in the name of the emperor.

"No one will DARE oppose the emperor now." THAT'S Tarkin saying that, baby!!!!!

I've noticed on ALL these boards that people don't really like Tarkin that much. I suspect it's because they don't like the idea of Vader not being in TOTAL command of every friggin' thing. Watch the movies and pay close attention to what's REALLY going on. Vader is a dupe. He kills alot of guys with hats on in ESB but that means nothing. That was only to show how Luke can save him. Please remember that he doesn't kill Piett at the end. That's because he has been near Luke.

So in conclusion...
Palpatine/Emperor= FINAL say on EVERYTHING! No second in command for this guy and if Vader crosses him, he'll be on a slab as quick as any of the guys with hats in ESB. The emperor will just have to get another Sith to replace Vader.

Tarkin and the other Imperials= The real villians. These guys are twisted and souless. They care nothing about the misery or deaths that they cause. It's all about power and control.

Vader= Sorry,folks. I like the character but I'm not THAT impressed. He's pushed around by bueracrats and I suspect that the only reason he was given such an imposing presence in the other movies because he was a bankable commodity and could sell alot of toys. Don't get me wrong now..he IS evil but not in the way that guys like Tarkin are. Vader can be saved. Tarkin can only hope hell isn't as hot as they say it is.

It's ALL there to be seen in ANH. Watch it and learn, you worshippers of the OT. LOL!!!!

 

The Death Star is Tarkins baby and Vader is his guest. It's like a CIA agent hanging out on an US Aircraft Carrier. Vader isn't under his command but respect is shown at all levels.

I also remember in ROTJ the Emperor congratulating Vader on his work in the outlying territories and concentrating his efforts on capturing Luke. To me Vader is a freelance agent doing what he must to to bring order in his territory beyond Tarkin's military operations as governor.

Also what Leia said about Vader being on Tarkin's leash and Tarkin's stench. It's wit. Leia managed to insult both of them in a single statement. One that Tarkin stinks and two that Vader is under someone's control. This must infuriate Vader, especially from a teenage, Royal pain in the ass.

Great writing on Lucas' part. Wish there was more of it in the PT.

 

Ï reckon it was a political move on behalf of Palpatine. He didn't want the regular military guys to get anti-Sith on him and cause dissent in the ranks, so he put a non-force guy high up the chain of command. In reality though, Lord Vader was the number two guy.

 

As I understand it, Tarkin was the Official administrator and commander of the Death Star and Vader was not part of the "Normal" Imperial Command Structure.

Vader was an emmisary of Palpatine, and if he saw fit Vader had the authority to remove anyone, including Tarkin, from their position of power.

Vader was there to supervice the "opening" of the station and to make sure Tarkin, Motti and the others followed Palptines orders.

I don't think Vader takes orders from ANYONE except Palptine. This includes Tarkin. Vader simply respects Tarkin.

 

He wasn't technically under Tarkin. Its all about jurisdiction.

Grand Moff Tarkin was a civilian governor type, in charge of the Death Star itself. Motti was the head of the military portion, the stormtroopers, TIE fighters, etc. and Vader was Palpatine's representative. Tarkin was given control of the Death Star, in the same way that a captain is in command of his ship. Even if there is an admiral on the ship, the ship is run by the captain, unless the admiral chooses to exert his rank over the captain. The Death Star was Tarkins to command, unless Vader chose to exert his authority, politically or physically....

 

"Once more the SITH shall rule the galaxy..." -Palpatine IMO Vader answers only to the Emperor, this is the SITH Empire

 

"Grand"moff tarkin

 

""Once more the SITH shall rule the galaxy..." -Palpatine IMO Vader answers only to the Emperor, this is the SITH Empire"

Yes, of course Vader answers only to Palpatine. He has no rank besides being the Emperor's personal assistant of sorts. Tarkin cannot in any way punish Vader or anything like that.

The important thing to remember is, however, that Vader is not all powerful. Tarkin was very high up in the chain of command, in fact he was a direct subordinate of the Emperor himself. In short, Tarkin is equal to Vader and as him takes orders only from the Emperor.

The Empire doesn't have a clear second in command. Palpatine had all sorts of over-lapping positions and authorities in the higher levels so that the only person who could effectively command all imperials was him alone. Vader is no exception to that.

 

It is not publicly a Sith Empire, and no one knows the Emperor is a Sith (except a select few), it probably makes more sense for the guys like Tarkin to be higher in the chain of command in the eyes of the regional governors.

That said, I know many people bring up Tarkin ordering Vader to release Motti as a sign of his superiority, but Vader's reaction is quite telling also. The way he casually says "As you wish" and slowly walks away, he might as well be saying, "Whatever, I proved my point". Its not like he is scared of Tarkin at all.

 

I think it was jurisdiction. Vader was in Tarkin's yard. I mean,
the use of the Death Star to instill fear in planet governments is
called the Tarkin doctrine. Vader is sort of this old pathetic
religious zealot to the Navy. But he can choke you with his mind.
They don't respect him, they fear him.
And since Vader is pretty much cowed by Palpatine. He's Vader's dog.
When Vader is aboard his own ship, he kills flag officers like it's going out of style.