Why was Vader under Grand Moff Tarkin?

I don`t think Palpatine announced that Vader was second in charge, I rather think he had his Sith apprentice ( Vader), who thought he was the second, all the grand moffs who thought exactly the same and if you add EU Emperor`s hands and each of them thought the same.
Vader is not taking orders from Tarkin, but because they both serve the Emperor they are allies, so he`s just acting respectful.

 

I'll summarise my thoughts in a very short amount of space - Vader and Tarkin are in separate groups in the hierachy, but are ultimately equal to each other. And if they met on the Death Star at the end of ROTS, one would think they knew each other for a long time. Neither could really order the other around - its possibly that Vader saw that Tarkin had a point when he said "This bickering is pointless." If Motti had said, "The emperor's a wrinkly old fool - " well then....

 

Vader certainly seems to be subordinate to Tarkin. When I origiinally saw the movie, there was no question in my mind that Vader was his subordinate. Remember, Tarkin orders him to stop force choking the 'non-believer', which Vader does.

Given what we learn about Vader and his relationship to the Emporer in the PT, though, this makes no sense.

 

Agreed 100% with that. And the death star being Tarkin's pet project made others assume Vader was beneath him.

 

Thinking about this question some more has brought up what I think is an interesting point: By the time of ANH, to what extent do people know who/what the Emporer is? DO they know he's a Sith? That he is able to use the force? That Vader is his apprentice? Obviously the commanders present at the conference table know Vader 'believes in' the force, but do they know that the Emporer does too?

 

I agree that the Emperors appearance has always been of the non-force variety.
It gives him political power to not be a force-user and be a victim of a force-user with Vader serving as the only loyal force-user left as his servant.

 

I don't think anyone other than Emporer, OB1 and Yoda know that Vader=Anakin. Bail Organa as well, probably.

As for the Emporer, he played the whole Senate into thinking he was just a poor, innocent victim of the Jedi, who he claimed were out to seize power for themselves. Wonder how long he kept up that facade. For his top level people, like Tarking, there's not really much need to keep up this ruse.

 

Wasn't it allways like...

Sids= "I put you there, so thats where you'll stay."...Vader is such a good boy!

Vader= "Yes sir!" *crisp salute*

So then when he found out he was a daddy...*excuse the wording*...he desided to go rebel!

Cheers_Cazza

 

GL often referred to Nazi Germany as a partial source of inspiration for the Empire and it's structure/origins.

Vader is the Emperors apprentice(if many/any people know that at all) and thus is his "right hand man"

His being on the DS1 to assist and insure that all goes to plan felt a lot like how Gestapo Agents would be along for projects of a Military nature were there any uncertainties of a political nature that may threaten such a project.

The Rebels theft of the DS1 plans were a political threat at that point and later became a Military threat upon Vaders' failure to secure those plans.

Vader/Tarkin relationship on DS1 could also be likened to a USSR Submarine Captain and a Political Officer on same sub.

The Captain of course is in command,however should he deviate from the political standing orders the Political Officer will do what it takes to ensure those standing orders.

In a situation like that,each holds a certain amount of authority that is so close to equal that dominance really depends on what's happening at any one time.

 

I think that Vader and Tarkin were "equals" of a sort, each with their own specialty. Tarkin was a military and weapons genius, so could be considered the Secretary of Defense of sorts, while Vader handled negotiations and ultimatums delivered from Palpatine, so would be something like Secretary of State. Tarkin led the massive assaults and weaponry while Vader "met" with the opposition's leaders and ran the "diplomatic" corps. Vader was certainly Palps right hand, but in defeating the rebels and maintaining order, Tarkin may have been more valuable without the Jedi to contend with. At the end of the day, Palpatine judged peoples' worth by their value to him and prior to having Luke to contend with, Tarkin may even have been considered more valuable overall...

 

Vader was Tarkin's lap dog through the whole film. I think Vader is just there to impose the Emperor's will or whatever. Tarkin had a strong military background, and was commander of the Death Star. In a way you can tell that alot of officer's were never really impressed with Vader. Even in ESB you can tell certain officer's probably think their recourses are being wasted on pursuing ONE freighter when they could be taking the fight to the Rebellion and just laying waste to them.

 

can someone give me an example of Vader actually taking an Order from Tarkin? Aside from the Princess' insult that Tarkin was holding Vader's leash, I got the impression that Tarkin ran the death star but he would do what Vader wished. I would compare the situation to that of the President of the United States boarding a battleship. Technically, the president is in charge, but the captain of the ship is the one in command.

 

Grand Moff Tarkin was in charge of the Death Star. Vader was on a business trip so to speak and respected Grand Moff's position. There was a mutual respect between the two; Grand Moff Knew Vader's backstory and respected his power. In the grand scheme of things Vader was second in charge. The other Imperial officer's respected and feared vader but also misunderstood where he was coming from most of the time. At the end of the day Vader could crunch Grand Moff (but that would annoy the emperor who treasured Grand Moff's abilities also.

 

I don't mean to sound rude, but there is no reason to keep discussing this. The creator himself has answered this question already.

George Lucas has mentioned on the ANH DVD commentary that Vader is like the Emperor's personal assistant and that he is equal to the highest level of underlings (Tarkin, the dignitaries, other Grand Moffs, etc).

So Vader and Tarkin are equals, Vader obeying Tarkin is merely a matter of juristiction.

 

Tarkin's tone when he tells Vader to stop choking the non-believing chump (does he have a name?!!!) indicates that it is an order (IMO), not a request. You don't give 'equals' orders.

 

They may be equals, but Vader was on Tarkin's terf and Tarkin had the ultimate authority there, a position that was delegated to him by the Emperor personally. Vader messed with Tarkin's chain of command, and Tarkin was bold enough to tell Vader to back down. He was in no position to order Vader around otherwise, only if Vader somehow intered ín Tarkin's business, as he did in this scene.

Vader knew that he was choking this guy for no good reason and that the Emperor would be upset. Tarkin probably knew too that the Emperor would not be on Vader's side if he killed the officer (who's name is Admiral Motti by the way). Plus, Tarkin is a headstrong man. I doubt that any other Grand Moff, despite their impressive rank, would be bold enough to be as harsh towards Vader as Tarkin was.

 

First, thanks for the name. I've referred to him as non-believer so much I was getting afriad someone would claim I'm a religious fundamentalist.

Now, back to the debate: Given that he's supposedly the Sith's chosen one, and in any event Sid's Sith apprentice, why would he even have equals? Seems a little suspect to me. But of course, I know what happens in the the PT, GL didn't, and I dont think he had thought them through in very much detail unti he started making them, notwithstanding any claims by him that the whole saga has been in his head for years.

 

Since the Emperor is not officially known as a Sith lord, Vader is not known as his sith apprentice. They think of him more like Palpatine's political aide or his personal agent.

Besides, IMH, it seems logical of the Emperor to not have a second in command. By having a bunch of people equal to each other, he assures that they will be fighting amongst themselves for his favor instead of trying to fight him. Since Vader is a Force user, it would be especially important not to give him too much power. After all, it's in the sith tradition to try and overthrow the master.

 

It always seemed to me, in ANH that is, that Vader was a Bounty Hunter. He was hired by Tarkin to get the plans for the Death Star. I always see him as the Boba Fett of ANH.

 

That's an interesting way to look at it. I guess you could assume that, even though I never saw it that way myself. One thing that would speak against it though is that Vader barks a lot of orders to his officers on the tantive IV in the beginning of the movie. I doubt an outsider would have that kinda authority.

 

One thing to remember, too, is that we really don't know anything about the Emporer in ANH, not even that he is a Sith and force user. To be honest, I just assumed he was some ordinary bad guy until his hologram appearance in ESB, and even then it wasn't completely clear to me that he was a Sith, seemsed possible that he just thought having a second Sith/dark jedi henchman could be useful in trying to keep the galaxy under his thumb, while weakening the rebel force because they no longer have a jedi on their side.

 

George Lucas kinda made everything up as he went along. The Emperor, according to the A New Hope novel, was a powerless and weak politican who was used by his underlings. The regional governors divided the galaxy between themselves and ruled with an iron fist. So in this story, Tarkin pretty much ruled the galaxy (since he had the Death Star, which made him more powerful than the other governors) and the Emperor was just a figurehead, a symbol.

So Tarkin was supposed to be Vader's superior. I've even heard that Lucas included Tarkin in the story to show that Vader didn't have unlimited power, that he too had to answer to a higher power.

All this changed during the making of ESB when Lucas made the Emperor a sith lord as well as Vader's master. Tarkin then became Vader's equal instead of superior. And that's pretty much how the story stands now. But it wasn't Lucas orginal intention.

 

Very intereting. Thanks.

 

Rise, my friend.