Will C-canon EU survive in this new generation?

Will C-canon EU survive with this new generation of star wars fans? Those who are young and growing up with TCW and then the possible Live Action Series.

Will these fans ever read the TTT or an NJO book...or will the majority of C-canon be forgotten? The EU is still surviving with TCW (yes the show is technically EU) and with the possible LAS, but the audience that reads the C-canon seems to be decreasing to me...or at least the star wars book audience has. Perhaps it has to do with the quality of books being published these days.

It also seems C-canon gets most of the beating continuity wise when new star wars products are released. Maybe that's another reason.

So what do you think? Do you feel the books that are still canon (haven't become non-canon by the PT) will ever be read by this new generation?

Do any of you still see young kids reading the books? Or has enjoying just G-canon and T-canon become the norm for these kids?

 

I hope the EU wil survive intact. The one thing that separates SW from other franchises is that even though hundreds of different stories exist and dozens of different writers work on separate stories, they all fit together like a puzzle.

Unfortunately, this may not be the case for much longer. People like Leeland Chee, who used to ensure that everything went together, have become "yes men" for George Lucas. Instead of making sure the EU isn't trampled on, they just tell the fans to "wait and see" because we "might like the new idea more." I try to make myself believe that it will all work out, but I'm not so sure anymore. Until someone takes the initiative to stand up to people like George and Katie Lucas who ignore canon, the trend will continue.

 

I say Don't sweat the toons. The books/Comics are the gold standards of expanded universes. I put my faith that they, and not to toons based on the prequals will be the ultimate survivors of the canon battle. the reason the EU is not the only canon is because Hore-hay can't admit the novelists have done a better job.

 

No one will "stand up" to Lucas, Star Wars is his story, he can do with it whatever he wants.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with being "yes men". Give just one good reason why anyone should stand up to Lucas, there is none. By the way, things haven't changed at all. The difference is that now we do have new stuff coming from movies/tv-shows, while in the past there only were books, comics and games. Pretty easy to keep canon intact when only writers you hire work on anything, and not your boss who is the one in charge. Chee wouldn't have behaved any differently in the past than he does today, if Lucas had worked on any eras that involved the EU earlier on. He didn't, so all that needed to be done was to keep the authors in line, not to keep them in line while looking at what's coming from Lucas.

 

I have no problem with George telling his story. But in my opinion, if he uses an EU character or planet, he shouldn't change it. If he didn't agree with what the author did, he should not give them the OK to publish it in the first place. With power comes responsibility.

Instead of changing the EU, he should use a different character or planet.

 

I guess we should be lucky that it is only the Clone Wars that is being rewritten.

 

They're working for the man who created the universe. When he does a project, that's his prerogative to change things. We may not like it, but that's just how things go.

There's also a limit to how books and comics can keep up the momentum. In SW, there is a timeline and unless they want to rewrite certain events and locations in Dark Horse and Del Rey's stories, they either have to expand outwards in time or in the same era. That means less focus on movie characters, more focus on expanding the universe... There's a limit to how much they're willing to do that, however the KOTOR and Legacy stories show that it can work and thrive.

 

Not sure who Hore-hay is but I generally agree with this. Heck, I didn't think SW would survive my own generation but it did. And there were no prequels at the time for kids to hook onto. The TTT is hitting it's 20 year anniversary and if you'd told me there would be a special reprint of Heir to the Empire 20 years later (that will probably do quite well), I'd have thought you a tad overly optimistic. There are EU books up to 20 years old that still sell. And they're being bought by both kids and adults.

As long as those "yes men" are putting out stuff like the movies in 3D, new TV series, and possibly new movies (at some point), the EU will flourish. Will it change? Of course. Could you have imagined books like Death Troopers or Red Harvest being commissioned even 10 years ago? The EU adapts. And we haven't even taken into account the effect TOR will have. It hasn't started yet but I can't see anything doing more for the EU and the younger generation than this MMO.

Not only that but people love light reading. Adults are buying the novels. I mean what children can afford $27 for a 240 page story?? The SW section is prominent in every bookstore I know of and is well stocked There are always folks hovering around it half embarrassed buying from The Bounty Hunter Wars to FOTJ. It'll all end someday as everything does but I'd bet the farm that the EU carries on for years. Also the posters on this board are still in their 20s. Yer all kids and you actually care about SW. That still amazes me.

 

Hore-hay is just how you pronounce George in spanish.

 

Ah, forgive me. I'm Canadian.

 

I too am very intrested in TOR's effect on the EU.


Maybe a rise in Non-force users? Smugglers, Troopers and Intelligence Officers.

Hell maybe even the end of the McJedi, and would help the growth of not standardiezed mass-produced prequal Jedi. Jedi more like NJO Jacen, or Kyle Katarn.

 

Like others have said, I don't personally feel that much has particularly changed, really.

Do I notice once loved stories being tinkered with more often? Of course. I've been following the EU for over a decade now, so the stories I've grown up with are the ones now liable for the firing line. But, that was the case when those stories were themselves being released. It was just Marvel Comics that were before my time which were the EU getting walked on. I never cared about that, so never noticed. But it was still happening back then, just like it's still happening now.

So, for my part, I don't feel that much has changed. Ten years ago, it was the 80s EU that was getting rejigged to work with Bantam and the first Del Rey novels. Today, it's the 90s EU and early Del Rey that's getting rejigged to work with the TV series and video games. And in 2020, it'll probably be the noughties and early tenies EU that'll be getting rejigged.

When it was KOTOR throwing out parts of TOTJ, sure, it made me a bit sad to see some of what I once imagined go, but I accepted the new picture of the ancient Sith Empire. And here again, TOR is now rejigging slightly what we thought from KOTOR.

 

There are no Mexicans in Canada? Y Tu Mamá También was a lie? (In one scene, it's mentioned that Tenoch's family lived in Vancouver for a while because of a scandal.)

 

The Bantam/Del Rey Expanded Universe fanbase seems to be a lot larger than the old Marvel comics fanbase -- and I can't speak to it with authority, but I would imagine that the readers of Marvel SW didn't necessarily accept the comics as being on the same level as the films insofar as that the second wave of fans brought on by HTTE do with the novels in the sense that they're considered "canon."

From what I've seen, the SW fanbase almost seems like it's splitting. You've got the fans from the novel camp, and fans from TCW camp, and while I would count myself among the former and can't speak for the latter, it seems like a lot of the novel camp hate TCW for intruding upon their universe.

Personally, I would rather LFL either reboot continuity, or discard the premise that there is a seamless continuity, because it's long past the point of no return. It seems with Star Wars, if you enjoy the spin-off material more than the source material, you do so at your own peril, because the originator reserves the right to alter details to fit his ideas when he tells his stories. I think that this wouldn't be so much of an issue if there wasn't for the pretense that Star Wars has a seamless continuity, which results in people devaluing stories that are viewed as not fully "canon"; thus, when it happens with a story they enjoy, they instinctively dislike the new story for doing so. I think that TCW isn't given a fair shake as a result of this.

I honestly can't speak to the mindset of the new generation of EU fans that are in the TCW camp, and their thoughts toward the older EU. All I can say that is with the current state of the EU in print, I'm inclined to prefer TCW.

Also, I disagree that C-canon is the most neglected in terms of maintaining continuity... it's just more apparent because TCW is viewed as a higher tier than the novels and comics. The novels and comics contradict each other just as much as TCW contradicts them.

 

I think what has been perceived as a decline in popularity in the EU (mainly books and comics) is a result of the decline in the popularity of the Star Wars franchise as a whole. The EU fanbase is extremely loyal, and very fanatical. I'd imagine that book sales won't change a great deal over the next 5 years or so.

 

Actually there are quite a few Mexicans in Vancouver and Canada in general but nothing like the US. I just didn't make the Hor-hey connection and used the Canadian thing as an excuse. In truth though, we spend more time trying to teach our kids french and very little time on spanish. Take a look at our Sesame Street and you'll see.

 

Ret-cons are C-level's friend. TCW is still T-level, and will adjust some things, and might knock parts or whole stories into S-level, but this isn't anything different for the EU then any of the other projects to come down the pike.

Lets just hope they use ret-cons that make the most sense and work with the most older projects as they can.

But as with all other projects the new fans will find that they are a part of the EU, and when the time comes, things will change about TCW when the next project comes along. It's part of GL's process.

I've been following the EU in one form or another for 16 or so years. And it's been something to watch and even play my part in the reactions to the news about new episodes or projects. It's like a big speculation game, and when the project comes out we see how things line up- and the fans that care about where they don't line up point out the holes, and retcons are craftily thought up to make things work- some of these holes stay open and unsolved for years. It usually depends on the majority of fans recalling them to bring it to the right persons attention.

A ret-con will come. Always.

 

STAR WARS: THE PHANTOM MENACE

STAR WARS: ATTACK OF THE CLONES

STAR WARS: REVENGE OF THE SITH

Just a few example of why people should stand up to Lucas. Remember that although Lucas deserves a lot of credit for making one superb Star Wars movie, that doubles as a great Space Western/Opera, he only made one great Star Wars movie. He had a lot of help with the other two. Lets not forget we could have had a Lizard Han Solo. Lucas Story, Krasden's script, and Kershners direction made ESB an almost perfect movie. ROTJ should show us that Lucas saw more Dollar signs during production that he did on focusing on the story. Don't get me wrong ROTJ is a great movie, but it's only good to a certain point.

But yeah C-canon as it is will probably eventually come to and end. Meaning continuity will be looked over. Future generations looking to expand futher into Star Wars lore will probably go for the best stuff, like TTT or NJO, and not give a rats ass about any of the other stuff. It's to completecated and who knows what kind of channels you'd have to go through to find certain material as the years go by.

 

Which books are you referring to?

 

Im not sure, i have heard that some books became non-canon by the PT. I think that book that had to do with Boba Fett's "old" origins, is one of them.

And here is another question.

Why is the TCW many times not referred to as apart of the EU? There was a big debate on the TCW forum about whether it was EU. I consider EU anything star wars related that is not the films. But some disagree on whether TCW should be considered EU.

 

You're thinking of The Last One Standing: The Tale of Boba Fett from Tales of the Bounty Hunter, however it's still canon as it was retconned that Jaster Mareel was a seperate person(Jango's mentor) and that Fett took the name Jaster Mareel as an alias in honor of his father's mentor.

As far as I know, there aren't books that were made non-canon by the PT, though I could see Jedi Trial becoming non-canon(though I hope not) once the TCW stuff is officially integrated with the rest of the EU.

 

For now, Timeline issues aside, I am amazed at how LFL authors like Chee, Fry and Wallace manage to fix arising problems with retcons that actually make sense, lately even before the troublemaker episodes even air. The only thing I'm having problems is Ryloth: it was an easy fix to present it is being partially tide-locked, with both constant day/night and shifting zones, there really was no need to come up with a radical "Ryloth is not tide-locked" statement.

Apart from that, things are going really smooth now. Grievous's backstory is ambiguous at worst, True Mandalorians exist at the same time as New "Mandalorians" (and mark my words, someone's going to write about their encounter someday!), Second Battle of Geonosis makes sense with the Brain worms overcoming the Republic garrison there and doesn't really hurt anybody and worst offender to Asajj's backstory is the Rattataki warlord replaced with a random Weequay. Compared to some retcons we had in the past (the whole dating of the Clone Wars from TTT turning out to be incorrect, Boba Fett not being Jaster Mereel, the whole Death Star construction affair) it's really a piece of cake.

P.S. Of course we now have issues with most (?) bad guys being in Republic prison during the Clone Wars and mysteriously escaping it later and not knowing whether the episode we watch this evening will turn out to be a sequel or a prequel to an episode aired a couple of years ago until after the credits roll, but that's TCW's own problems and have little to do with old-school EU.

 

Well I would think the simplest way to deal with Ryloth is there to be 2 ryloths.

The tidaly locked, world with the spice, and the economic backbone of the twi'lek Gov.

And the non Tidaly locked planet that simply lost all political and economic relevacnce post OR.

 

The thing is, the Fett story wasn't rendered non-canon. Instead, they just made it fit with the later canon (and in fact, the latest version has it literally true with Fett using the name of his dad's mentor while a Journeyman Protector).
The existence of the term "C-canon" didn't exist in the 90s, when the canonical nature of works like the Marvel comic were in question. The real problem is that the EU hasn't had to deal with an ongoing "higher canon" series that has been constantly treading on the material. However, considering the circumstances they've done a fairly good job so far with keeping it intact. The deeper issues - like how the EU version of the Clone Wars relates to the CWAS - really has to wait until the series ends as it is constantly shifting (and I'm skeptical that it's really going to all be chronologically consecutive episodes from now on). But I'm optimistic that it will be resolved in the end.