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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Will Disney Re-Release Theatrical Cut Of The Original Trilogy?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Max@TSWP, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. Nate787

    Nate787 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016

    Thank you. It is mind boggling how many people continue to misinterpret that exchange.
     
  2. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    This has been debated many times but the upshot of this and what is overlooked is what Lucas actually said as opposed to what people wanted him to say and what they wanted to hear:

    http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-speaks-altering-films-1988/

    The destruction of our film heritage, which is the focus of concern today, is only the tip of the iceberg. American law does not protect our painters, sculptors, recording artists, authors, or filmmakers from having their lifework distorted, and their reputation ruined. If something is not done now to clearly state the moral rights of artists, current and future technologies will alter, mutilate, and destroy for future generations the subtle human truths and highest human feeling that talented individuals within our society have created.

    A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.

    People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as “when life begins” or “when it should be appropriately terminated,” but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.

    Lucas IS the artist altering his work as is his right. What he is against is the mere copyright holder who isn't the artist altering the work.

    Completely in totality. The 4K's are all ready to go whenever they want to release them. Not until they get distribution back I'd guess.

    I agree with your argument that it doesn't really matter to the audience. The only real hope is that it would matter to someone at Disney who wants them out. Regardless Lucas' visions will be out as the default releases in whatever format.

    Even if they would release them it'd be very unlikely in the extreme that it would ever be the true originals. Most likely they'll use the 4K versions as the basis then rework those.
     
  3. theMaestro

    theMaestro Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Lucas' Congress speech had two major points: that artist rights/works should be protected by corporations (which Qui-riv-brid provided a quote for) and that art shouldn't be tampered with to fit modern tastes. Referring to the colorizing of The Three Stooges, he says:

    "Would color distract from their comedy and make it not as funny anymore? Maybe just the fact that they're in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. By putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was. But you try to make it in full, living color and try to compare it to a Jim Carrey movie, then it's hard for young people to understand." (George Lucas)

    So while he was arguing for artist rights during some parts of the speech, we can see that this was hardly the only thing he was saying. He was also clearly against altering old works of art because it would significantly change their cultural context such that newer audience members wouldn't be able to appreciate them for what they were. I guess he changed his views on that in the years after he made that passionate speech.
     
  4. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013

    These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tomorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with “fresher faces,” or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor’s lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new “original” negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control.

    Why this obvious distinction between an artist and a copyright holder of the moment is overlooked is another issue.





     
  5. theMaestro

    theMaestro Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 16, 2015
    It's not overlooked. You mentioned it already in a previous post. And even in my post I acknowledged that Lucas was indeed advocating to protect artists' works from corporations (a "copyright holder"). Where Lucas' thoughts seem to have changed though is on the matter of cultural context.
     
  6. Valeyard

    Valeyard Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2017
    Lucasfilm is not the worst offender of copyright, there are distributors who used to burn the original negatives and prints in days of old because they wanted to ensure their work didn't ever get released into the public domain. The main problem we have is that copyright lasts far too long, even Microsoft and Google have argued for a much shorter term especially for tech/software.
     
    Qui-Riv-Brid likes this.
  7. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    I realise that. I was questioning why Lucas editing the movie was even brought up. He was editing & putting together scenes that Kirshner & Marquand directed.
    Correct, that's why in my post I acknowledged that it is a different situation. Also that Lucas can & should create SE's if he chooses to. However IMO he should also make the original versions available in the best possible format. Obviously he doesn't have to, but he should have for all 3 OT movies, & IMO he has an even greater responsibility to do so with the two movies that he did not direct. I'll repeat Marquand's quotes:

    "George was very good because throughout he would say, ‘Hey, you’re the director,’ shrug and walk away”.
    "If you are the director you are really the man who says what goes. There are always stories in the movie industry about directors getting pushed around by producers. But, all those producers are people who really don't understand how movies get made. You can only really have one person doing that job. The good thing about George Lucas is he knows that fact."
    http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Interview-With-Richard-Marquand-Director-of-Return-of-the-Jedi-June-1983/

    RE that first quote, I wonder if Lucas happened to say that during the filming of the band scene at Jabba's palace. Or while Vader silently turns on the Emperor rather than absurdly spouting "No!" within earshot of him. I guess Lucas should've said "You're the director...but I'll override your decisions & change whatever I feel like later." To which Marquand might have replied "Then why not direct the damn thing yourself George?". That's speculation of course, but according to those quotes RM naively thought that his directorial choices would stand.

    My position is that given GL didn't direct those movies he had even more of a (non legal) responsibility to preserve those guy's theatrical versions in the best possible format. A responsibility that now falls to Disney/LFL. Are you & Qui-Riv-Brid saying that shouldn't even be a consideration? That those two directors, even in this special situation have no artistic rights at all? Surely the compromise would've been fairer.

    Finally there's the responsibility to the audience. Lucas released the original versions & they stood in that form for decades. He asked people to pay good money to watch them, to buy them & to grow attached to them. At no stage in the 70's & 80's did he warn people not to get too invested in them bcs he would change them later. It's quite poor to then suddenly decide to not make those versions available on an ongoing basis. After asking people to invest decades of time, money & affection into them. Which by the way made him a personal fortune. That type of fandom & support warrants some consideration. It shouldn't be all about him & what he wants. Funnily enough, back when RotS won an award he was quoted as saying to SW fans "The reason I make films is for you. The audience rules!"

    He then proceeds to disregard his audience & only make decisions to suit himself. Pity he didn't hold the same level of audience consideration as his mate Spielberg who said:

    "For myself, I tried [changing a film] once and lived to regret it. Not because of fan outrage, but because I was disappointed in myself. I got overly sensitive to [some of the reaction] to E.T., and I thought if technology evolved, [I might go in and change some things]…it was OK for a while, but I realized what I had done was I had robbed people who loved E.T. of their memories of E.T."
    http://www.slashfilm.com/steven-spielberg-regrets-altering-et-raiders-hit-bluray-original-forms/
    This keeps getting mentioned & it's a vacuous pointless observation. No one's questioning his legal rights. It's about giving a **** about your audience, which he previously said that he's all about. Anyway, it's out of his hands now & hopefully the new owners of LFL will correct this.
     
    AndyLGR, TX-20, DrDre and 3 others like this.
  8. Valeyard

    Valeyard Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2017
    My understanding is that GL gave Marquand very little creative control, and that Marquand was basically happy to direct in the way George wanted. Basically he had an arragement similar to that of Spielberg and Hooper on Poltergeist. Kershner on the other hand did exercise creative control, and you can certainly make the argument that he shouldn't touch Empire. Kershner even said he didn't want Empire changed, and that he was happy that the 1997 Special Edition didn't introduce as many changes as to the other instalments.

    Well the SE appeals to some, perhaps even most of the film's audience. But it's still no excuse not to release the original. In fact there was no excuse to use the 2002 transfer for the BD either in 2011 - they should have at the very least done a fresh 2K restoration. The HD restoration done in 2002-2004 was done for DVD release it's not in the quality for DCP, nor is it ideal BD quality compared to other 2011 releases. Even fans of the SE should be angry that the BD used the DVD master and not a restoration done for high definition formats.
     
    Darth Downunder likes this.
  9. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    What one should feel is really up to each and every one of us to decide for ourselves. Getting angry about these things doesn’t help me.
    I do WISH that a future release will give us a new restoration, though.
     
    Darth Downunder likes this.
  10. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    Disney has famously kept extending Mickey or rather Steamboat Willy:

    https://artlawjournal.com/mickey-mouse-keeps-changing-copyright-law/
     
  11. Encuentro

    Encuentro Jedi Master star 2

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    Aug 8, 2013
    theMaestro and darklordoftech like this.
  12. theMaestro

    theMaestro Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 16, 2015
    Not only that, but they might also be able to maintain the old 20th Century Fox logo on a potential OOT release, if this deal happens.
     
    Steve McGarrett likes this.
  13. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    There is no roadblock in the first place from that angle. At best it's a detour to 2020 when FOX's distribution rights run out and even then that is pretty meaningless. They recently ran the saga on TV locally and only ANH had the Fox Fanfare. The rest had that digital release open:



    I would guess there will be a lot of articles from people who don't understand that Disney already owns ANH but think they don't.

    If anything comes of it the question would be then would they somehow work it that Lucasfilm movies would be released by 20th Century Fox and so add that fanfare to the start of the movies again and retroactively do that to TFA, R1 and the like?

    I don't see why they would but they probably could.
     
  14. Encuentro

    Encuentro Jedi Master star 2

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    Aug 8, 2013
    Many people feel that the Fox fanfare is part of the original theatrical versions.

    Roadblock, detour, they go hand in hand. A roadblock is often used to redirect vehicles. Distribution may be a major factor in holding up a release of the theatrical versions of the original trilogy. If that roadblock were removed, the three could be released together on disc with Empire and Jedi possibly retaining the iconic Fox fanfare. Waiting for the distribution rights to expire in 2020 gives us the messy scenario of Disney having the distribution rights to Empire and Jedi, Fox having the distribution rights to Star Wars, Empire and Jedi being released without the Fox fanfare, Star Wars being released with the Fox fanfare, Disney and Fox having to come to some kind of agreement to release the trilogy together, or the films being released separately by two different studios.
     
  15. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    It is in part but that is more about nostalgia and that is great of course since it was on all six movies.

    Minor at best and at this point why would they bother releasing anything until after IX comes out anyway?

    Next best option is for a 9 movie saga release.

    Again it's all minor. Disney owns the movies. I doubt they are all that concerned by a fanfare.
     
  16. themoth

    themoth Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 5, 2015
    darklordoftech likes this.
  17. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2004
    Apparently, as of now, the talks are pretty much over. Could still happen down the line, though. Still, considering Disney paid just under 4.5 billion for Lucasfilm, how much are we talking here?
     
  18. MisterJedi2002

    MisterJedi2002 Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 17, 2017
    Maybe when the saga completes 50 years, they launch the classic trilogy without the changes. :p
     
  19. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2004
    Is this a serious possibility now?
     
  20. TheMoldyCrow

    TheMoldyCrow Jedi Master star 3

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    Jun 16, 2015
    I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.
     
  21. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 1, 2012
    My bet is that they will. Another way to generate a new revenue stream.
     
  22. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    No more than before.
     
  23. MisterJedi2002

    MisterJedi2002 Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 17, 2017
    More if they do, they will still leave some things. Like subtitle IV and James Earl Jones being credited in the end.
     
  24. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    No way will they miss out on the revenue this would bring in. I would be happy with the theatrical cut of Star Wars. ESB and RoTJ would be nice, but only if hard and digital copies were made available. If this is exclusive to Disney’s SW steaming service, my menories will do just fine.