ST Will fan backlash affect development of IX?

out of curiosity -dont want to start a war or do PT bashing- Are people on these forums who loved the OT but were rather disappointed by the PT more likely to like TLJ? and those who loves the PT are they the ones who mostly HATE this movie? Or the divided opinions over TLJ transcend this? Or is there some kind of vague "stereorype" for those who enjoyed or raged over the movie? Again im just curious about the pro/con profiles, everyone is entitled to their own opinions...

 

I hit the PT growing up at the right time for it to become my OT, if that makes sense. Liked the OT, PT, and TFA/Rogue One, didn't like TLJ. I was kind of shocked at the overt need to confirm that anyone can be special/a force user; the whole "you're nobody so you don't belong in this story" was really out of place and took me out of the film. I guess if you look at just the OT it makes sense that you need to confirm it, but the PT is filled with hundreds of other Jedi, so my impression growing up was that the Skywalkers aren't the only special people in the galaxy. However, it seems like a lot needed that confirmed.

 

By the way, if you think these characters have no arcs, do you think of them are in the same headspace or the same person as they were at the start of the film? I think Rey, kylo, Luke, Finn, Rose and Poe have all undergone growth and / or transformation by the end of the film set across an interconnected array of themes that all link together at the end in a way that feels both inevitable and totally unexpected.


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By the way, if you think these characters have no arcs, do you think any of them are in the same headspace or the same person as they were at the start of the film?

I think Rey, kylo, Luke, Finn, Rose and Poe have all undergone growth and / or transformation by the end of the film set across an interconnected array of themes that all link together at the end in a way that feels both inevitable and totally unexpected.


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good thing finn didn't learn that saving people you love/care about was important in TFA. Its a good thing rose was there to tell him that directly after he tried to sacrifice himself to....save....people......he.....loved and...cared..........about.

Its also a good thing luke learned about failure, since he totally didn't learn that in the OT and it wasn't specifically underlined in ESB. Sarcasm aside, his "failure in the cave" was what helped him to see where he was going when he nearly killed vader. Remember? after he slashed vader's hand off and the emperor gleefully told him to take his father's place, luke saw that vader's hand was artificial. He then looked at his own artificial hand and came to his senses. This is why it annoys me when people monkey stuff they see on the internet and just dismiss everyone who didn't like the movie as "having their head canon blown up." (Not saying you're doing that. i'm talking about the general fandom.) There are serious problems with the story and the handling of more than a couple of characters. Rey becomes a side character by the third act. No explanation/beginning of an explanation as to how anakin's saber was recovered. Han said luke supposedly had gone off looking for the first jedi temple. Turns out he was just hiding while his friend was being murdered and his twin sister was getting wrecked in a war. Also, if luke didn't want to be found, then why did he leave a map to lead people to where he is? RJ could've come up with another way for the FO to track the rebels. How about a homing beacon. (you know, like the one tarkin and vader used to track the falcon back to the yavin base.) Or how about FO sympathizers in with the rebels? That creates a battle on the ships to snuff out the traitors. RJ instead went with the lazy ass option that renders guerilla warfare, impossible moving forward. If the FO can just track you through hyperspace, then I dunno how the new rebellion is supposed to fight them. Who cares though right? RJ burns threads behind him and moving forward. No world building, no lore building, one new character intro'd. So JJ and company have to world build, lore build, intro new characters, intro new plot threads, close new plot threads, close out everyone's character arcs, and resolve the "story arc" of the trilogy. All of this in one movie since RJ apparently wanted to write and direct the final chapter.

These are just 3 plot lines set up in TFA that were just ignored in TLJ. That **** left me confused.

 

i'm making 9 and i'm killing everyone. ha ha!

 

The ending I've been hoping for! Haha

 

what internet whiners don't realize is that their theories and imagined storylines do not dictate sw.

 

I doubt a small vocal fraction of the fan base will be able to dictate or bully Disney into doing what they want.

 

We shouldn't be surprised.

It's been two years of "Disney would never do this cuz backlash". People really imagine Disney as some scared, easily intimidated, mom and pop company terrified of going out of business at every turn. That's been used for two years to buoy certain theories, and shut other theories down.

 

DP

 

DP

 

It’s not twist driven writing. It’s character driven drama that then takes us to unexpected places while ultimately at the climax revealing true character. And he does it by challenging every character with their worst fear. That’s damn good character writing. I think Rian found the one human detail that makes it totally believable why Luke cut himself off from the Force, his fleeting moment of shame. And BTW - He saw the suffering, death and destruction Ben would cause. People on here have said Luke would do whatever he could to stop that suffering. Well had he killed Ben, he would have saved everything he loved. But he couldn’t do it because he’s not a killer.

And that’s (imo) the genius of that moment.

A moment of fear for the right reasons, and staying his hand out compassion and mercy was what cemented the darkness. That’s epic Greek Tragedy. And of course Luke blames himself. The legend of Luke Skywalker becomes a lie in his eyes. Something to be torn down. And yet his real failure is the failure to walk away and that’s what he has to overcome.

That’s nothing any of us predicted and I think it elevates Luke’s arc and the entire ST. The Rashomon moment is one of my favourites in the entire saga. I would hate for that to be taken way by some fan committee. Who wanted Legends Luke - who quite frankly sucked. A dull, boring Boy Scout.

That some fans can’t tell the difference between plot twists and character driven drama does not mean they are smarter than Rian. It just means some fans didn’t get the story they wanted.

 

But TLJ played out in such a way that you can't change much, even if you want to. There is literally no way back.

 

Well, they can change things like the tone, for example. One big complaint about TLJ is that the comedy is often misplaced, so things like that can be tweaked in the next one.
They can also do something with Luke to appease the fans who feel he wasn't treated right in TLJ. Force ghosts are a thing in SW, and I'd be shocked if Luke doesn't show up as one, and I expect that when he does, he won't be the miserable old hermit we saw in TLJ.
As for Rey Random... they COULD change it (the way it was revealed does leave some wiggle room), but I really don't think they should. I always felt Rey Random was the best way to go, and even if it wasn't, it would feel a bit cheap if they suddenly reveal Kylo was lying (or had false images planted in his head by Snoke). But they could do it.
Another major complaint was the Canto Bight subplot, so it's entirely possible for Lucasfilm to make sure that the Ep9 doesn't have a subplot that detracts from the main story.
So there are definitely things that can be done to address fans' complaints. I can't imagine these things won't be taken into consideration.

 

No. I gave the TLJ a "C" grade. However, I am more eager than ever to see how they resolve the Trilogy. The real cliffhanger is to see where they go from here.

 

Agree, their main goal is to move beyond the OT characters and develop new content. However, they decide to do it will not be dictated by us. They do have people who review the forums, blogs, and YouTube content. I know this to be fact. However, the overall influence on the main story plot is negligible.

 

I consider myself a diehard and absolutely loved the movie. Does loving the movie demote me to "casual"?

 

What exactly is the backlash over? am i right in thinking that Fans are going through another you raped my childhood phase?

 

Nope.

Movie is making major bank. KK doesn't care about anyone's tantrums.

 

Thread merge of the "fans are smarter" thread into this "fan backlash" thread. We don't need both of these threads.

 

A lot of the posts on here (not all of them!) are the Dunning-Kruger effect in word-form.

Too many angry fans have no idea how to tell a good story, nor how to appreciate one yet insist they should be listened to. I'm sorry, but no.
TPTB are not going to listen to any idiotic backlash when the film is making major bank, is critically loved and despite an excellent cinemascope rating, the RT score has been rigged by moronic haters. Never mind all that, they gave RJ his own trilogy because they love what he has done. It's almost like they know what they're doing and the fans maaaaybe aren't the greatest arbiters of what constitutes good taste or knowhow when it comes to storytelling and filmmaking.

Thats not to say there isn't valid criticism of TFA - or that hating the film makes you an ill-thought out hater. I think there absolutely are valid criticisms you can level at the film, and I also think it's perfectly valid not to like certain story directions the film takes. But equally, not liking certain directions doesn't mean "THIS IS THE WORST FILM EVER, THIS ATROCITY MUST BE WIPED FROM EXISTENCE". And also equally, every ill-thought hater is acting like they're William Goldman, when they're clearly not. Again - for clarity if you're making a valid case against the film, or putting your dislike of the film in vaguely measured terms, this is not a dig aimed at you. I am clearly generalising.

BTW - as per nightangel talking about Rian writing just to shock - here is Rian on the subject. He is correct.



Can you talk about subverting fan expectations in this film, and in particular, the decision to kill Snoke?
Yeah, I guess the first thing to say is coming into writing this or any story the object is not to subvert expectation, the object is not surprise. I think that would lead to some contrived places. The object is drama. And in this case, the object was figuring out a path for each one of these characters, where we challenge them and thus learn more about each of them by the end of the movie.


And this was his thinking with Luke - that's character driven writing - not shock factor.

When did you decide that Luke Skywalker had to die in The Last Jedi?


It was something very early on that started to feel right to me. It was a process. It was very early when I thought, when I kind of landed on where Luke’s head was at and what his arc was going to be in terms of moving from someone who’s decided the galaxy is better off without Luke and the Jedi to fully embracing the galaxy needs a legend to believe in. I’m going to put this on my shoulders and be the legend of Luke Skywalker for everybody. When I knew that was his arc, I had the instant tinge of that means that’s the place for him to [die] because what else can he accomplish in the physical realm beyond that? That would be the place emotionally that would have the most impact for him to let himself go. […] I don’t know what’s gonna happen in Episode 9 at all, but there’s actually more potential for more interesting things in terms of his role in the final chapter if he moves into another realm.

He could be a Force ghost haunting Kylo Ren.

It’s fascinating, isn’t it? A lot more fascinating than him just tagging along with our heroes with a lightsaber. So to me, it opened up more potential and it seemed like having a full film that is Luke’s journey…it seemed like if there’s any place in the trilogy where it’s gonna have the most potent place, it would be here. But believe me, I wasn’t looking forward to doing it.

 

JJ's more of a people pleaser so yes, I do. That may be a good thing.

ROTS was the best of the PT and showed that Lucas was indeed listening. JJ made TFA to resemble not just ANH but aspects of the other films. He was building on what people already loved. So yes JJ is listening.

Satipo you quoted Rian talking about killing Snoke who was offed without us getting to know him YET Rian says that we should get to know more about characters. How ironic I'd say?

I wouldn't say the word "should" but rather "will". Filmmakers also look at what worked and what didn't as should anyone in any job.

 

JJ will have to up his game now. And it's helpful that Rian has now cleared the nostalgia decks. I don't think JJ would have gone back there anyway, but it's good that the evil master/ apprentice dynamic is already off the table. Now JJ can be bolder in terms of design, world building, character and story (not in that order). It's exciting. They won't be paying the blindest bit of attention to angry fans, nor should they.

 

He doesn't want you to get to know Snoke. Snoke is there to serve Kylo's story. That's not ironic so much as Rian wasn't interested in Snoke as much as he was in Kylo - and this is why he talked about these stories not being Wookieepedia entries. He talks about not wanting to stop the plot to explain to Rey who he is because it's not relevant to the plot here. And he's right. It's not. That doesn't also mean that some don't want to know more about him - but then you could have said the same about Palpatine in the OT. If 9 is served by fleshing out a little more about where he came from and what his agenda was, then I'm sure they will get into it more.It all depends on the story they are telling. If JJ feels that's important, he'll go there. He won't go there because some fans are angry.