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Discussion Will the First Order survive the sequel trilogy?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by Mandalore the Ascendent, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Mandalore the Ascendent

    Mandalore the Ascendent Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Personally I don't see how it can. In canon they have already had to make the New Republic pacifists and allow the Empire to reform. The fact they went on to destroy the NR means, presumably, that the gloves are off. If the FO ever loses its advantage then the Rebels are going to hunt down everyone of those terrorists and either kill them or hurl them in jail. So in lore there's no reason for the good guys to not destroy the FO. Any chance for a "grey" or reformed Empire basically died when Kylo refused to go good. It is now the Rebels trying to restore the Republic against a fascist regime. The lines feels very clear cut going into episode 9.

    Thematically it makes sense to resolve the Republic versus Empire thing as well. This is the last Skywalker saga film so definitively resolving that conflict would make sense since it runs through all of the Star Wars films in one form or another. So you close out the Saga with both the the new Vader dying with his new Empire.

    The good guys have to win. We won't be seeing Rey and Co for many years so it wouldn't do to have a cliffhanger ending or loose end like Hux running off with half the fleet. Whilst they could do comics and books set after the ST I don't see the appeal. It would hinder future films and you already have a likely gap between episodes 8 and 9 to expand the conflict.

    The FO is also depicted in a very negative manner. We see them kill civilians, blow up Maz castle, blow up the Hosnian System, get to see Hux go Hitler with a clearly irrational world view. Episode 9 gets even more blunt when we have Kylo Ren all but say that he and the FO by extension want to kill Star Wars. This means we are being worked to want to see them all go down. It would be bizarre to not see them get their comeuppance, even if we don't see the return of the New Republic.

    The nostalgia is mostly for the Galactic Empire itself. The FO is simply a spin off faction like the Sith Empires from KoToR and ToR. Not only can they reinvent a similar Empire like faction but they aren't limited by time as shown by Rogue One and Solo. Basically they don't need the FO to do Stormtroopers and Imperial Officers; even if they did films set after episode 9. The FO itself is expendable.

    My ideal film would be that we see the FO get wrecked. No ifs, no buts, they throw everything into the fight and they go down in flames. A second battle of Jakku with their ships piling up onto the broken Empire ones.
     
    Bullhead CIty likes this.
  2. MrElculver2424

    MrElculver2424 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2014
    I actually find myself rooting for the FO because the New Republic and the Resistance were established to be completely pathetic organizations. The New Republic had 30+ years to build itself up, but the FO comes out of nowhere and wipes it all out literally within hours, maybe a few days, and the Resistance is down to one ship. How stupid. The FO must be a thousand times more powerful than the Empire, because the Empire needed form out of the already existing Republic, whereas the FO achieved galactic domination out of nowhere in a few days.

    Of course the FO has to come down in some way, but I hope it's not a shallow repeat of ROTJ where we're just like "Yay! The good guys topple the bad guys and peace is restored." We've already done that and that would be super lazy story writing.

    Some ideas are...have Finn inspire a stormtrooper revolt; have Kylo take part in taking down the FO, etc. I just hope it's not Rey, who is perfect for no reason and has never earned anything and it'd be insulting for her to save the entire galaxy when Luke Skywalker failed.
     
  3. run_luke_run

    run_luke_run Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2004
    If you keep up with the canon material (that means reading), you would realize the FO most certainly did not "come out of nowhere", and it is not at all surprising that the Resistance has its back against the wall.


    " I just hope it's not Luke, who was perfect for no reason and has never earned anything and it'd be insulting for him to save the entire galaxy when Ben Kenobi failed."
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
    Strongbow, KembaSkywalker and TX-20 like this.
  4. MrElculver2424

    MrElculver2424 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2014
    Having to do massive reading outside of the movies in order to understand the movies is not a good defense. The state of the galaxy in the ST is not constructed well. The FO, yeah, hiding in the unknown regions, takes over control of the entire galaxy within just a few days because the New Republic and Resistance are so pathetic. It's craziness.

    Luke was nowhere near perfect. He had to learn, had to fail, had to fall and get back up. Rey is nothing like him.

    As for the FO in IX, I have no idea what to expect with how it'll be defeated. Destroying 2 Death Stars and killing the Emperor and Vader wasn't enough to completely topple the Empire, so it's gonna take a ridiculous amount of effort to topple the First Order.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    CaptainEO likes this.
  5. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    But if General Hux stays in charge, who knows... :p
     
  6. MrElculver2424

    MrElculver2424 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2014
    I don't know. Is Hux a smart, powerful leader or an idiotic, bumbling fool?
     
    Lt. Hija likes this.
  7. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2014
    I like the First Order, but they will probably lose. I hope the next galaxy wide threat is a royal family or alien civilization wanting to build an empire.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  8. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    I imagine they will be defeated. Possibly from within.

    And, then, in the opening crawl of Episode X, we will be brought up to date on the galaxy-conquering activities of the Second Order.
     
  9. run_luke_run

    run_luke_run Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2004
    And the near-completion of a second and larger Starkiller Base.
    What's that you say?
    [​IMG]
     
    Ubraniff Zalkaz likes this.
  10. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Wow, Lizzy looks good again. I can see she recovered well from the shock she had when she misheard that Harry is going to marry an elder lady named Merkel. To hear that her name is Markle puts a smileback on her face. Glad that she is smiling again.
     
    run_luke_run and Ubraniff Zalkaz like this.
  11. Palp_Faction

    Palp_Faction Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    I hope it tears itself apart with Kylo's help and that the Rebellion goes into the Unknown Regions and wipes out their stronghold there. The FO is tiny in comparison to the Empire. A galaxy-wide revolt will soon turn the tide.
     
    MillenniumFalcon2015 likes this.
  12. sheri1967

    sheri1967 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2006
    I want it not to survive to pave way for a new threat from the unknown regions (but not just another Empire or FO type scenario).
     
    MillenniumFalcon2015 likes this.
  13. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Episode 10: Brexit
     
    Darth Smurf and run_luke_run like this.
  14. Hopeless

    Hopeless Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Dear God that's a frightening image!

    Maybe Hux is screwing up deliberately because he wants Kylo to kill Snoke...oh right he risked certain death to let another psycho take charge?!!!
     
  15. Bullhead CIty

    Bullhead CIty Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Great topic!

    If the "Rebellion" has any chance at victory, they will have to recruit entire worlds to their cause. Not unlike Dooku recruiting powerful worlds to the Separatist cause.

    As the Force needs balance, the two governments need a truce. If not, the bad guys very well may win this ST.
     
    Lulu Mars likes this.
  16. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Ooh, a truce! Star Wars gone Matrix!

    BEN: Just how long do you think this peace is going to last?
    REY: As long as it can.
     
  17. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I really hope not. It’s time for the Empire to end and I mean it should be destroyed completely. No leftovers after Episode IX. It’s best to move onto a new threat after this one and one that does not come from the Empire.
     
    11-4D and miasma like this.
  18. Doom_Buggy

    Doom_Buggy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2016
    I have no doubt the Resistance Rebels will win, but I hope tptb do something more unique than a final straightforward battle where the Resistance beat the FO.

    If it was up to me, neither side would "win" and something new would happen (eg both sides done away to make way for something new).
     
  19. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    If the First Order survives do you all expect that they'll be the big bads of the RJ trilogy or the Benioff & Weiss series?
     
  20. GregMcP

    GregMcP Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2015
    I think that defeating the Empire was good for the story telling of Return of the Jedi, but a pain in the neck for these Sequels. JJ loved the Empire imagery so much that the First Order was thought up.

    So, maybe it's allowed to survive for the sake of some future Episode 10.

    But I am hoping for the Empire to return, like Nazis from the Moon in the movie Iron Sky.
     
  21. BalanceOfTheForce

    BalanceOfTheForce Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2016
    No we don't need a remnant of the remnant of the Empire in a few years
     
  22. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Incuding bleached Finn? Hopefully not!
     
  23. ChrisLyne

    ChrisLyne Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2002
    I imagine we'll get a victory like ROTJ - decisive enough for the film, where there's no question the Resistance has won and the FO has been defeated, then the books/comics will cover the mop up and final smaller battles.
     
  24. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Considering the Stormtroopers are just programmed and presumably follow the orders of whoever's in control (hence the reason they follow Kylo so easily once Snoke is dead), I think a cool path to take would be for the good guys to simply overthrow the FO leaders and reshape the First Order into something better. Like a reversal of what Palpatine did to the Republic.

    I could imagine stormtroopers looking up to Finn as the man who broke against his stormtrooper programming to become something better. And they could look up to Rey, a Jedi, something they were told to hunt down and eradicate. And Poe, a rebel, something they were told was a cancer to the galaxy.

    Leaves a lot to be explored later on, as well as perhaps reuniting stormtroopers with their families, recovery processes, and giving stormtroopers a choice to either serve or leave and follow their own paths.

    Of course I've learned not to get my hopes up when it comes to speculation (i don't feel like getting laughed at again for expecting something better), but hey, it's fun to think about at least.

    Of course none of this would happen in a day, but imagine post IX content focusing on the First Order having it's own little civil war so to speak. Similar to the Red and White armies of Russia?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  25. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Maybe after killing Kylo and the other Knights of Ren, Rey asks, "Why are we fighting? There's no Republic or Empire left to fight in the name of anymore," and Hux screams about how ths First Order fights to avenge Palpatine, the democratically-elected Chancellor who was betrayed by the Jedi Order and murdered by Luke. Rey then reveals the truth about the Jedi, Sith, Palpatine, and the rise of the Empire to all of the First Order, and they all renounce the cause, ending the First Order.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018