ST Will this movie make or break the ST for you?

Kind of. I'll still be able to take or leave the films individually, but yes, if they mess up the climax, it won't leave the best of tastes.

 

I'm very happy to hear Rey is spending more time with Finn and Poe in IX, and that makes me very hopeful. I wish Finn and Poe had come with Rey to Ahch-To: them confronting Kylo Ren at the movie's climax would have been amazing and would have made a much more solid movie.

It's also interesting that Keri Russell's character seems to be masked, so I wonder if it's a trick to hide her identity. She could be Rey's mom, and maybe she'll fill up a mentor role Leia would have had. Wishful thinking, but I hope there's something between Rey and Poe and that she sees how happy they are with each other and that she gives her blessing

So yeah, JJ knows where the true heart is at.

 

Yes it’s called Rogue One- it’s pretty on par.

Neither. I will see the next one and the one following that.

Considering that at one point there were none more to be made and now that there is some it’s better than nothing at all. I’m just happy they are making them.

 

For me, just producing new films isn’t better than nothing if the new films damage or even ruin iconic characters of four decades and make iconic, beloved 40 year old films pointless and null and void. After seeing the first two films of this new sequel trilogy, I wish that the sequel trilogy hadn’t been made at all. If they weren’t going to respect what came before and continue the story already told in the original films instead of retell them in an inferior way with new characters, they should have left this era alone and told an entirely new story a couple of hundred years in the future or past. Just giving us new SW films isn’t necessarily a good thing if they aren’t thoughtfully and carefully and respectfully planned and executed, in my opinion. If the new films negatively impact what made the Star Wars franchise so popular and beloved in the first place, what has been gained?

 

They could have simply outright said these are outright "reimaginings" of the OT from the very start or even say it's a "sequel" trilogy but set it far removed from that era so that in comparison to these new movies they retain their integrity.

It's not that they don't retain their actual integrity in themselves as six movies (which they do) because these new movies are so unrelated as actual sequels anyway but obviously it hurts them to some degree (the OT especially and particularly) because the general audience regards them as an actual continuation because of the marketing and (mis)use of the original actors.

I never really held out much hope that they ever really would get what made Star Wars actually Star Wars but I figured they could mimic it to some degree and not do much harm. Obviously that didn't happen in the ST. Outside of that the "no real harm" had generally been the case with the quite good Rogue One and alright Solo.

Not that they don't have various problems as well but generally they give some enhancements to the saga story while the detracting elements can be ignored and put down to interpretation of story.

It's not unlike the EU and new canon versions of the origin of the Rule of Two that make no sense to Lucas' movies since in his story Bane creates the Rule of Two thousands of years before TPM (hence the Jedi being certain there are no more or less than a Master and Apprentice) while in their story Bane creates it 1000 years before TPM as the Sith go into hiding. In that case of course the Jedi would have no knowledge of the Rule of Two at all and even jamming in some story where they found out about it just after Bane created it before going into hiding there would be no reason for them to believe that it was adhered to.

While it doesn't really work when you think about it the damage is fairly minimal because unless pointed out you probably aren't going to pay that much attention to it much like some of the events and ending of Rogue One which doesn't really work or fit very well into ANH at all but it's not so egregious that it calls attention to itself.

 

Couldn't agree more. I know many fans disagree, but I've never had a problem with the prospect of no more Star Wars movies. I'd actually be a bigger fan if the live action film series hadn't continued past 2005.

 

I understand. I used to be very technical about all this but when i was 12 i was ok with my 5 yodas and own toy playing storylines and lately i just feel that i want to enjoy them as if i was young again without thinking too deeply about it. I definitely understand that doesn’t work for everyone. I’m old enough to know that things don’t always go the way you think. So these storylines as of late i don’t see as unrealistic. Life is not logical. I just like the starships, a snap hiss of lightsaber, a wookie growl, a new creature, adventure, a baddie, hyperspace lines, classical swelling musical crescendoes, and so on. It was really nice to see old friends onscreen. That’s like, ya know, just my opionion man.

edit : i’m excited to see how and if the rise of skywalker connects all 3 trilogies in a simple linear way - i think JJ is going for that and if not...that’s ok. I’m looking forward to the other trilogies coming out. I’m excited to see what people come up with.

 

Nicely put my friend. Enjoy it while you can.

Sent from my QTASUN1 using Tapatalk

 

Isn't this a bit selfish though? You're essentially saying that unless you like it nobody one less should have the opportunity to enjoy the new films. What if the film was made exactly as you'd have liked it and someone has the same reaction you've had to the new films?

Jurassic Park is one of my favourite films. I think the films have been getting progressively worse. But I'm not going to tell people who do enjoy the new films that it'd be better if those films were never made. I can enjoy the film I like and they can enjoy the films they like.

 

Notice that I didn’t say that there should have been no films at all. I said that if they weren’t going to respect the films and characters that came before, then they shouldn’t have tried to make a sequel trilogy that would negatively impact those characters and films, making the films pointless and null and void, and damaging the iconic characters. It’s a huge universe, and they could have told stories in it that didn’t harm what made Star Wars so successful and popular in the first place, by telling stories a couple of hundred years before or after the Lucas films. Or, they could have told stories that took place on other worlds and with all new characters in the same timeline.

It’s the fact that this sequel trilogy has ruined the previous films and characters for quite a few people, myself included, that I wish that they never would have been made. If that’s selfish, so be it. The filmmakers did not need to disrespect the OT films or characters or diminish them in order to tell a great sequel trilogy. They could have told a story that continued from RotJ in a logical and satisfying way for almost everyone. Instead, they chose to be subversive and controversial, alienating a lot of us in the process. I don’t think we need to be happy about that. What was done with the sequel trilogy doesn’t just affect the sequel films. It affects the entire skywalker saga which is why it can’t be ignored or brushed off.

 

I'm aware of what you said. You said that unless they could provide films involving the new characters that satisfied you they shouldn't have made any new films involving them. What you neglect to mention is that what is respectful and satisfying to you is completely subjective and may not have been satisfying and respectful for others. I'm sorry that you don't like the new films, I truly am, but alot of people have enjoyed the new films. That doesn't even necessarily include me, as I've been critical of the direction in some respects myself. But I honestly think that fans ought to learnt to not let the new films affect their experience of other films.

 

@ChildOfWinds
“that would negativelyimpact those characters and films, making the films pointless and null and void, and damaging the iconic characters.”

That’s just it... i don’t think those films did that at all. There is so many things that could have been done. The ST did not make the OT “void or dull” I still love em. Regardless they went that route for the ST and I am still excited and hope that Leia’s scenes are incorporated really well. Hopefully the next movie you really like

 

I'm very much in this camp tbh. As someone who is approaching their 50th year small things and feelings mean to me than technical details. I just want to sit there in December and get the chill down my spine when the blue font of "A long time ago..." appears on the screen. It means that a SW film is about to start and its' all new to me. It's the sounds and visuals that make me think of memories and nice things in my life as my SW memories as some the best and ingrained in my life.

I also have small children and to see the films through their eyes means more to me than deliberating over plot holes and theories. My daughter is a bit of a creative fiddler/fixer. She loves to play, build and dismantle in her own curious way. She loves the character of Rey (the Scavenger) and when I showed her TROS trailer she was wide eyed when Rey appeared in the desert. Rey's subsequent back flip made here eyes open wider than ever and that means everything to me.

Don't get me wrong, there are people who take SW more seriously than me and I fully respect them to the max but SW is different things for different people.

 

Ah, but then they wouldn't have had the original cast to help boost TFA to that $2bn take.

Which is going to be a major problem for future films - I'm a big fan of both Rogue One and Solo, but neither did as well as their ST counterparts.

For all that Legends 2006-2014 was an extended masterclass in how to learn to do exactly this - it had some great stories sure, there was also no shortage of godawful ones that deserved to be damned to the deepest depths - there is one difficulty here: The main SW films are a series.

For all that TLJ got rave reviews from critics, I saw little there that actually considered the serial aspect of it, that this wasn't a stand alone film but sequel to TFA and film no. 8. Why does this matter? Because if an episode goes off the rail for the viewer, it does impact the others. Some absolutely hate ROTJ for having a second death star and Ewoks, it's not new. I happen to think ESB without ROTJ doesn't really work, but my starting point in SW was ROTJ.

Given how incredibly ****ed up the world has been globally for the last 30 years, with the ending of the Cold War, the post-ROTJ peace that held for 25 years is actually pretty good for the GFFA but there's no sense of that conveyed in TFA. Instead TFA opens with everything wrecked and about to get more so with the Starkiller now on the board. ROTJ SE amplifies the idea that everything was supposed to get better with its instant collapse of the entire empire. To go from that, straight to TFA, I can't blame someone for going: What the hell happened?

And, around that, they've been so secretive it's been to the detriment of the ST. It needed something to bridge the gap, it wouldn't have taken that much, say 2-3 minutes in a 120 minute plus blockbuster, we're talking a fractional amount of time for what could have been an excellent pay-off. I can think of ways for RoS to do this too, it could easily be woven into how they acquire new allies. If RoS is to tie together all nine films, this is one of the long list of things it has to do.

I'm someone who's greatly enjoyed the other media material - books, comics, animation, now audio - but the argument that those should be optional and not needed to understand the new films does have a point that I find hard to dismiss.

 

I believe this is where those of us who were not happy with the story of the ST so far disagree with you vehemently. From what I read from the majority of the detractors of most specifically of TLJ, is how negatively Luke was portrayed. OT Luke was the perpetual optimist once he decided to join Obi Wan and learn the ways of the Force. He believed in the good of Darth Vader/Anakin when literally everyone else in the galaxy had given him up for pure evil. TLJ portrayed him as a person who gives up on family at the first hint of a problem, and his abandonment of his sister makes his success in DS2 seem pointless.

 

Well that’s ok if that’s how you feel. But since GL has already said that storyline of exiled Luke was his plan too and today in the news it was reported that he also has a hand in the wrapping of the trilogy. If it’s good enough for GL it’s good enough for me. Who am i to make that judgement call?
The key word you used was vehemently... i think maybe you could explore alternative feelings such as acceptance? I disagree he “abandoned” everything — i’m under impression you act as if he’s not allowed to feel sad? Him and Yoda discussed that. It’s interesting though how some fans see it that way and i feel fortunate i don’t. Sorry.

EDIT: One thing for sure - I personally think that people should wait till
the 3rd one comes out before “writing off” star wars in terms of understanding the big picture . If anything having GL contribute his two cents gives it legit status and this film will “make” it and not break it as far as i’m concerned.

 

To me it`s already so broken, I`m not touching the third movie as to not add more to the negative pile. They made me hate my favourite SW character in TLJ, along with half the new characters, JJ is not the filmmaker and TROS is not the movie to change that. I`ll read up on spoilers after the movie comes out but baring a miracle, that`s as far as it goes.

 

Fundamentally messing with a beloved character like Luke, who pretty much embodies the spirit of hope of SW, was a bold and ill timed move. Even if GL planned on exiling Luke I doubt he would have gone to such extremes. But I respect all opinions, and some do feel that Luke's ending was noble. I found it sad and depressing.

 

Where did George say that the story of exiled Luke was his plan too? Because as far as I know, on the record, George said they threw out his treatments and told him to take a hike (cf 60 Minutes). Y'know, until TLJ sparked angry responses and suddenly, oh it was all George! As I've stated before, we have a lot of interested narrators who are invested in their version of the behind the scenes story being the correct narrative.

They already lost me with TFA but TLJ only added to it. Certainly JJ isn't going to fix it because, IMO, he doesn't have the talent, creativity or skill to do so. He also thinks nothing's wrong. I'll see it on TV at some point, just to see how they manage to put Leia and Lando into it and see if they dedicate it to Peter (they dedicated TLJ to Carrie but I never saw them acknowledge Kenny Baker in any way).

But I really think it's funny that the same people who've yelled about fan service with regards to giving the OT3 anything beyond the misery they were given, are all in on Palpatine coming back.

 

old news bro
link

 

They used some basic plot points of his ideas here and there (as long as they lined up with their ideas) but they didn't use his actual stories or his story of Luke Skywalker who actually was a Jedi in exile for a reason and trained the "Rey" character (Episode VII). Not to mention his entire creation myth aspect to do with the Whills and midi-chlorians. Then grandson Skylar Solo turned to the dark side in VII. The established dark siders were Darth Talon and Uber (presumbly place holder names and character types) What the grand-daughter did or if she was scavenger "Rey" I don't know.

That they went to Lucas to try to figure out how to tie this trilogy they created into Lucas' 6 movies (after abandoning his stories which were actual sequels) says a lot. They know Lucas' actual ST plans but their movies are so far afield from his after two that they needed some ideas from him onto how to shape what was done and work that to however they can actually tie it into his story.

This is doubly difficult because they didn't do his sequel stories in the first place nor did they do actual sequel stories themselves.

You are the ultimate judge of whether it makes any sense to you based on what is done.

If they had actually based this sequel trilogy's story either on Lucas' stories while using him as a resource and you didn't like it then that would be fine.

If they had actually done a continuation of the saga only using elements of his story in part (or not at all) and you didn't like it that would be fine as well.

In those above cases it would be about actual sequels which would encompass what came before.

As it is they decided they didn't want to make an actual sequel trilogy at all save for in the most nominal and cynical marketing way. If you would like that it would be fine but if anyone would be against that because they wanted actual sequels as opposed to lesser remakes that undermine the previous movies (the OT in particular) that is quite a different objection to make.

 

Look I didn’t mean to get sucked into this old rabbit hole of what story is right or not but just to say the film is not gonna “break it” for me.
kinda seems like splitting hairs to me. it’s like saying that starbucks cup in last nights game of thrones “broke” the series. If people were to think that deeply about the OT or PT there’s plenty in there that’s got holes. I just am not going to go comic book guy over it. Star Wars Episode 9 will make it for me. That’s all. I like em. Simple. Peace.

 

I doubt it will break it for me. So far, there are two films in the trilogy that I genuinely enjoy watching. If the third one is exceptionally good, then who knows, this could end up being the best of the trilogies. If it's lousy, I'll still have TFA and TLJ. If it's just so-so, it'll be a bit disappointing, but not so dissimilar from what happened with the OT when ROTJ ended up being a bit of a disappointment (for me.)

I think the problem (or advantage?) for me is that I don't consider either of the previous two trilogies to be such flawless masterpieces, either, so I'm not holding the ST to as high a standard as some people seem to do. The SW movies have, for the most part, all just been enjoyable entertainment, not worthy of over-analysis or of getting overly upset about.

 

Which ties into it ultimately being your judgement call as talked about. If anyone wants to look at this as an actual sequel trilogy after it's done and it works for them then fine.

The point is that there are different layers based on the movies. I found TFA a very weak start but even with all it's many problems it didn't "break the ST". At this point I would say TLJ did because it was so overtly cynical about Star Wars and very specifically wanted to and took pleasure in breaking Star Wars in general by breaking Luke. It basically ignored Luke's story of the OT as happening then appropriated it for itself pretending that the realizations that Luke came to were new and not something he had already learned decades earlier (and did it in a very cynical way).

I don't know the reference but I'd say that is different from the hero of one trilogy being completely misrepresented in the next one. It'd be like after ROTS with Anakin becoming Vader then in ANH he's Anakin again before becoming Vader again by the end of the movie.

You really have to look hard for them on many multiple viewings as opposed to a gaping hole staring you wide in the face basically as soon as Luke comes onscreen.

I don't think anything is a "flawless" masterpiece but people's interests are all over the place. Some think the first two Godfather films are that or 2001, Vertigo, Citizen Kane, The Searchers, Taxi Driver (and those are just the American films). In that respect Lucas' Star Wars film are that to myself. I never expected the ST movies to be that in any way, shape or form but to my mind the least they could do is to compliment the 6 movies they are supposed to be sequels to and not go out of their way to undermine and ignore them.

 

I'm going to give episode 9 a chance, but I doubt it's going to be enough to redeem the ST. I thought TFA was a good film and a good starting point for a new trilogy, but TLJ was just awful. There is a way to save it if done correctly, but I feel as JJ has just been left with short straws and will probably just throw them together and hope it's good enough for fans not to blame him for the ST.
I hope I'm wrong but I doubt I'm going to be, but I will always love SW, the games, the originals and the prequels. Just not the ST, I'll just pretend they didn't happen.