Lit With information on Whills in both James Cameron book and SW Archives what are your opinions on them

Not just the Whills but midi-chlorians and how would Leia be the Chosen One since Lucas said in the same book that the Whills were responsible for Anakin's birth?

My theory is that Anakin was the Chosen One but destiny isn't guaranteed to happen. Always in motion the future is. With Darth Maul and Talon still being Sith Anakin didn't complete his destiny so someone must finish what he started.

How would you make sense of it?

 

Interesting but probably to complicated for a story....In terms of answer you question of what my opinion on them are.

 

Yeah but Lucas is very ambitious.

 

I think he would've burned the last bridge with the OT generation if he made an ST in which we fins out the Force = the Whills and people are just the "cars" that the Whills drive.

Now, if he made the Whills and ethereal extension of the Force akin to Tolkien's Ainur, the Ones of Mortis like the Valar and the Force Priestesses the Maiar.... well, that's something. It would have tested a lot of people, but also felt a lot less like pulling the rug out from under them. The way in which OT generation fans took the midi-chlorians was bad enough, imagine if he'd come out with the Whills thing....

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The basic problem is that people have an issue with personifications. If you have this or that entity, they always ask, is it the penultimate, highest etc. godly entity or is there anything/anybody above or next to it? And if not, why not, why one and not a family or trinity or else of entities? It turns in circles either way the answer goes, people tend to ask and call for the other.

The basic problem also is that people want definitive answers, nothing vague but clearcut well defined borders by which they can call something or call out something. Reality though hardly ever is as clearcut has human line drawing and everything is a spectrum and fluid in how one transgresses into the other, especially in spiritual realms and esoterics. Those are only simplified in distilled down versions that people can grasp and name and then mistake for definitive distinctions despite being mostly arbitrary.

Are the Midichlorians tiny beings within everyone? Are they no beings but an essential part like blood or cells people tend to not think of as individual components? Same for the Whills. If personifying and individualising them, people get worried and attribute them with agenda and all kinds of other humanized traits, like they did with their pantheons of gods in the macrocosm as well. But what if it does not matter if personified and individualized or not? Then Whills, Midichlorians, even gods become just an essential part of the nature of reality. Like you do not question your cells and microbae, they do not question your godhood as you are their god and universe. Likewise you do not question nature or weather (unless individualising them into gods!) and accept that you are a part of nature, earth, the solar system etc. and if you let go of individuality for a moment, that you are the microbae in the macrocosmic entities and nature that contributes one way or another to the cycles of life and death.

That I think is the basic problem and understanding of why some people fear Whills and Midichlorians and Force Gods and think they are "driving people", which is not wrong but not right either as it sounds kinda bad, while it isn't. The question just is where you put your focus, what is an individual but the boundaries you apply to your perception of a part of the universe in trying to understand it. People just love to carve up reality to be able to name it and analyse it.

 

To be fair that’s not a bad thing had he managed to build another generation up with the prequels.

Question is what does the execution look like which can be tricky with stuff like this in general

 

Execution in SW always is multifacetted. On first glance you got flashy fights and action, going deeper you hit the philosophy and myth and much more. A lot is code and coded, not just in dialogue but also music, color, scenery, etc. and not everyone takes to that immedeately. Rewatches are neccessary and not everyone is willing to engage SW on deeper levels, as it offers to each kind of fan his/her own level of fun.

In that regard SW is like a deep rabbit hole and not everyone descends to its bottom or is ready to. Kids see it different than adults do. Scholars different than casual fans do. Not everything is spelled out like in a novel or sourcebook and codifying this multi-interpretational masterpiece of SW into such often leads to conflict amongst fans and authors as any interpretation takes away from other readinds.

 

Idk I think sometimes people just make excuses for bad execution.

Or honestly read too deep into things that are never there.

also why should I have to put work into a movie it should meet me halfway and not make me do everything.

 

Ouch, that's lazy... Movies are Art, not just entertainment! At least Lucas is an artist!

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Yeah but he's a artist that i think people sometimes people read TOO much into his work, or just doesn't always execute his ideas well that ideas that may not be there come off that way.

Also this is Star Wars it's both art and popcorn fluff.

 

Of Lucas many problems as a storyteller, I don’t think being too subtle is one of them. You don’t have to work for to find the themes at all: more often than not he has the characters shout them at the audience.

 

No i agree subtly is not his strongpoint but I think some folks read TOO deep into his work sometimes or deeper than I think even Lucas's mind was going at the time.

When in reality I don't think Star Wars is ever meant to be DEEP.

Simplicity is Star Wars strength.

 

Can you give me an example of where you think people read too deeply?

 

Not off the top of my head but i' know i've seen peoples takes on Star Wars were i think they read too deeply into things

I've also seen people reading into things that i don't think the movie earned necessarily even if that was the intent of said movie.

 

I’ve not seen that myself. Most of the time when I see people talk about the thematic stuff from Lucas it’s usually to criticise how bluntly and clumsily he implemented it. He focused too much on telling rather than showing etc.

 

No I agree with that too.

Granted I am thinking in Star Wars in general but there is still a lot of Lucas implemented stuff.

But i can't think of anything off the top of my head, I have of Star Wars conversations a day it's hard to keep track.

 

I would say the prophecy of the Chosen One is something fans read into too deeply. I’m not sure that Lucas considered it as inviolable as fans do, and he likely would’ve messed with it if he felt the need to for a good story (Maul).

But I will also say that he was too subtle when it came to communicating the ideas for which he developed the midi-chlorians and the Whills. The theme of symbiosis was well represented in TPM, but the broader ecological mindset that it’s a part of was not emphasized as much, and subsequent prequel films barely touched it. And that ecological thinking, as he calls it in the interview with Cameron, is essentially the core of Jedi ethics. It’s the notion that all life is connected, that all life must be protected and nurtured, because it’s all a part of the Force.

The Whills and the midi-chlorians are not themselves the Force or even any kind of Force divinity. They are the primordial living organisms who still make up most of life and who have the most direct, purest connection to the transcendent energy known as the Force. They are essentially the model to follow for the Jedi seeking to gain greater understanding of the Force. They are conscious beings, a kind of hive consciousness it seems, but they are natural beings, and their role in the story emphasizes the notion that this physical world matters, even if there is something beyond it which is mostly unknowable (the Force).

 

That's a good take.

I long for Star Wars to take on a more direct ecological tale.

That actually opens up, to me, a possible peace time tale with very high stakes. The planet destroyers aren't superweapons or hyperspace disasters, but the exploitation of resources.

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