Within the Guidelines: Moderated discussion thread

Ah, okay, that makes really good sense. thanks.

 

It definitely needs to be made clear to people that when rating a story, you have to judge it by its presentation over the subject matter.

The film Life is Beautiful deals with the Holocaust, and yet it is rated PG (and in an era when PG-13 exists). I'd say it doesn't get much darker subject matterwise. It's just that the presentation of it lets you know what's going by implying it. Because we know about the Holocaust, we can draw conclusions on these implications ourselves. Similarly, I believe there are many mature issues that can be addressed by implication in PG fiction. Readers will be smart enough to connect the dots. This allows you to deal with the character aspects and struggles surrounding these incidents without dwelling on the incidents themselves.

I would point to the second story in "The Force that Binds" (formerly called "Coruscant Girl") as an example. In this story, The Brood, several mature subjects are dealt with in a PG appropriate manner. The author, spiritgurl, deals with orphan children being forced to steal for an organized crime group and with a character dealing with the fact that her mother was a prositute... but handles both of these in an appropriate manner, focusing on the characters rather than the 'incidents', or what have you, themselves. I believe she's doing a splendid job with it so far and it's made for interesting character developments.

I have something to bring up that I think it might be helpful to includ in the FAQ:

Should the Star Wars EU be used as a guideline for fanfiction ratings?

In other words, is all EU PG? Would EU novels be allowed to be posted on these boards were they fanfics? I'm not quite sure they all would, or at least that all parts of them would. This may be unclear to some writers. They may try to justify things because they were in the EU. I'm not too familiar with EU novels so I think that's something those who are need to address. Perhaps giving an example of a PG EU novel verses a PG-13 EU novel would help...?

And outside of novels, there are other EU mediums like games. I know that KOTOR is rated teen, which is basically PG-13. There's a good reason for that, too. The game is, afterall, filled with fighting and while that's not really graphic, there are severed arms and chewed corpses in part of the game.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Hey Alrik! Verboten means forbidden: the English word is a direct cognate of the German: they mean the same and are even pronounced very similarly. There are plenty of those between English and German, as German is a major parent tongue of English.

How is "angst" used there?


*Derisa*

 

thanks for the mention solojones I'm trying anyway. That's something that's been stressing me out a little actually as I write the episode - me trying to write the story in my head while trying to make sure I'm not going over some invisible line with anything. I don't think I have so far. This thread and the other mature topics thread is helping quite bit with that.

Liz

 

I wouldn't go by the EU novels. Some are definitely too graphic to be acceptable under TF.N guidelines. But they are written for adults, and you can get away with a lot more. I mean, parts of Ender's Game I'd consider too strong for PG. I know that this is a source for a lot of confusion.

 

So you're saying FanFiction can't be written for adults? I don't think that's what you're saying, but it seems like the source of some of the confusion here could be this... it's claimed that TF.n aims at being a family forum. So does that mean our fics here are supposed to be something for the whole family?

My personal problem is that, while what I write isn't innappropriate content wise for kids, it's certainly not aimed at kids. Or even young adults. I'm 16, but I most certainly write for adults who can understand the themes I'm trying to portray. While Star Wars can be enjoyed by all ages, I don't think all Star Wars fics can, even if they would be rated G. There seems to be this confusion between family-oriented and kid appropriate here.

Anyway, I would still like in the FAQs perhaps a few EU titles and a moderator concensus on what they would be rated. That might give us an idea of what adult aiming Star Wars stories have content that would be PG-13 or over and not acceptable on the boards.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Not to stir things up... I am I lowly noob here, afterall, though I've been writing fan fic since 97... but it seems that there's this discrepency... at once, TF.N doesn't want to offend LucasFilm, a "family-friendly company," and yet, won't allow us to write fan fiction with the same level of violence as books that are officially sanctioned by LucasFilm?

Yes, many pieces of the EU might be written for "adults," but I was 13 when I read Zahn for the first time. And just because they might be writen for the teen/adult market, lots of younger kids read these works simply because they're "Star Wars," and I doubt any kid's parents would object to their child reading any of the NJO novels. But the biggest deterrent to child readers is length and complexity. That's how books are rated, why you have pre-school rated, children rated, young adult rated, and adult fiction... the ratings are based on length and complexity.

I tell you this: the most VIOLENT books I have ever read have been K.A. Applegate's Animorphs series--you can find them in the child section of your bookstore. They give graphic descriptions in both the subjective (what it feels like to have your intestines ripped out foot by foot) and the objective (what it looks like to have your intestines ripped out foot by foot). These are books rated for children.

 

So you're saying Fan Fiction can't be written for adults? I don't think that's what you're saying, but it seems like the source of some of the confusion here could be this... it's claimed that TF.n aims at being a family forum. So does that mean our fics here are supposed to be something for the whole family?

No and yes. No, I?m not saying Fan Fiction can?t be written for adults. It is, and a lot of it is excellent. However, Fan Fiction written for adults may not be appropriate for the boards here. The owners want this site to be ?family friendly.? That?s what they have said. And I know for a fact that this site draws readers younger than 13. There are many, many other Fan Fiction sites, and many other Star Wars sites that accept Fan Fiction with ?stronger? themes. If you?re really anxious to write and post stronger stuff, you may want to check them out.

I doubt any kid's parents would object to their child reading any of the NJO novels.

I have to disagree here, Jedi Monk. I know several folks who read the NJO books, but who would never allow their kids & pre-teens to read them. Some books, however, such as the X-wing books or Zahn's earlier books, are not as ?adult,? and that level is fine. Other books, such as Traitor, are probably too strong to be acceptable here.

Anyway, I would still like in the FAQs perhaps a few EU titles and a moderator concensus on what they would be rated. That might give us an idea of what adult aiming Star Wars stories have content that would be PG-13 or over and not acceptable on the boards.

That is an excellent idea, Solo! We?ll work on that.

 

This is what puzzles me. Why can we disscuss such things in almost every other forum (the JCC, the Senate, and all the EU boards) but are so hamstrung when it comes to our own works?

 

I don't understand, Breezy. We ARE discussing them here, aren't we? I don't think I understand your question...

 

I have to disagree here, Jedi Monk. I know several folks who read the NJO books, but who would never allow their kids & pre-teens to read them. Some books, however, such as the X-wing books or Zahn's earlier books, are not as ?adult,? and that level is fine. Other books, such as Traitor, are probably too strong to be acceptable here.

As with all things, each parent has to make their own judgment call. My 10 year old read LOTR and all of the Harry Potter books but she is quite mature for her age. While she does understand about death/battles, etc, she still does not understand sexy humor (thankfully yet) but my 15 year old does.

I would prefer a slightly higher bar on the fic levels (for sex, not violence) but understand that the owners can choose what level they want. I just go to other sites for more adult stories.

 

I mean in general, not just in the sanctity of this thread... but that's just a can of worms that I really want to avoid even though I slipped and mentioned it..

 

The main reason re: to discuss or not to discuss is mostly that none of us has any say in it or control over it. We can talk and debate it to death, but unless the owners decide to change it, it won't change. Kind of like the slash policy.

I'd rather discuss stuff we CAN do something about... like how to write within the guidelines. I've passed the "book ratings" query along to the other mods.

So, anyone have a particular scene or topic that concerns you?

 

I'd say mental torture and anguish. I might not be the best person to talk about this, since I don't really tend to get squicked out by even the really dark stuff on the boards. And when I do, I enjoy it. However, I've read a few shorts that I wouldn't necessarily call PG. They were meant to be disturbing, but even then it made me cringe a little bit more than I was comfortable with.

The problem is the same with the other areas - where's a good place to draw an initial line?

As for the EU books, I consider the X-Wing novels to be PG. The battles and violence are described without a lot of gore, and the sex is usually just alluded to or isn't detailed beyond a few caresses. Same goes for Tim Zahn's works. NJO books like Traitor and Star By Star, not so much.