Amph X-Men Movies & TV - Discussion

I think Dark Phoenix got made if only because they had finally turfed Singer and the writer/director had filled in on Apocalypse a lot anyway so the studio/crew wanted to give him a non-Singer shot. Basically, Singer's craziness got big on X-Men and since it was a hit he was given a pass to indulge in that crazy and ditching on set in all of his subsequent movies.

As for Dark Phoenix the movie itself, it is certainly better than Apocalypse. And I just watched the Phoenix Saga on Disney Plus from the 90s X-Men cartoon, I'm not sure how accurate and close to the comic book source it is, but it still at least has the pathos that is a part of the story. Whole lot of Shair and Starjammers that never made it into the two film adaptations.

 

I heard a theory that the Skrulls were originally going to play a role in Dark Phoenix.

 

I'm fine watching The New Mutants on streaming, but I think they have to do at least a one week release (not sure if they can do day+date)...

 

It added nothing. Literally nothing.

Spoiler

The alien threat? Barely a threat.
Mystique died because JLaw wanted out. Her death by Jean's hand however had no emotional tie despite the shoehorned attempt to do so. It had more emotion for Hank but even that felt forced.
Xavier screws up YET AGAIN. Charles once again made to be the big bad and Magneto even calls him out on the hypocrisy of the whole thing.
They knock out Peter before he can do anything interesting with the first half of the movie. He gets a little space scene and that is it.
Also, they finally go to space and they then proceed to ignore ALL of the space elements of the Phoenix saga.
There is no Hellfire Club. There is no Shi'ar. All we get our some random angry aliens that Jean kills without much trouble.
And then, Jean goes off to be Phoenix while Scott and Hank run the school and Charles and Eric play chess.

But what actually came of all of it? In the beginning, the X-Men are world renowned heroes. That lasts all of 20 minutes before they are right back in the same status quo they ended at in previous movies. Magneto is free yet again. Jean is gone yet again. And I wrote all of this without once mentioning the fact that Storm and Nightcrawler were a part of this film- because of how little they were actually in the film I forgot about them up to this point.

First Class on the other hand? It gave us the origins of the team, it gave Magneto and Raven their motivations and started Xavier and Hank on their path. Days of Future Past gave us closure on the old team (and a happy ending - until Logan I guess) while also advancing the X-Men in the past. Raven moves on to become her own person, Eric goes off to try and live a quiet life and Xavier goes off to reopen the school with Hank and continue on.

Apocalypse shows us the progress the school has made and gives us Jean, Cyclops and Kurt. It formally brings Raven in as a team leader of the X-Men and moves the school from being just a school to also a team prepared to fight and defend mutant rights after facing the threat of a mutant like Apocalypse. And Magneto goes off to later be on Genosha.

But here's the thing, if Dark Phoenix didn't happen, what exactly would have changed between the ending of Apocalypse and the ending of Dark Phoenix? Not much at all. Jean is still alive- she's just flying around as Phoenix, Charles is temporarily kicked out of the house but we know he'll end up back where he was at some point. But Raven is dead and that kind of throws a wrench into the whole time stream we know about. And all for what? The X-Men are back to being hated and feared for no good reason and threats are still out there only now they don't even have Charles to protect them. They have Hank and Scott I guess?

 

It's the end. Nothing else was needed. I watched it and kept waiting for it to suck as much as everyone said. Nope. It was decent.

 

I went back to my original review in this thread.

I stand by what I said then. It's neither good nor bad. It just is. It exists. And that's all you can really say about it.

 

It's a holdover from the pre-Fox buyout, contract says that it has to have a theatrical release and then on HBO. Now if they hadn't kept pushing it back it may have ended up like Call of the Wild which landed on digital shortly after due to theatre closings but oh no, some Disney scheduling bigwig looked at the 2020 1st quarter calendar and thought "Y'know, early April right around the time a Bond movie lands, that would be great!" If it had been scheduled for February or March it would have been out on digital and cable already.

 

So, I made a very bad decision and decided to watch X-Men Apocalypse, and wow what a disaster of a film, I mean I’m not surprised but still, wow is it bad.

 

I liked Apocalypse, found it better and more enjoyable then Days of futures past and the last two Avengers movies.

 

Apocalypse had so much potential and it just got squandered on a bad plot.

The first half really had some good stuff: Introducing Scott and Jean, having Raven serve as a role model for mutants and rescuing Kurt.
Even bringing back Moira wasn't totally bad. And Magneto's plot was really well done.
The development of the school is also great to see.

The problem is that it all falls apart with Apocalypse. His horseman (aside from Erik) get no development. Psylocke just sort of joins him, Angel joins him because he really has no choice (or personality) and then Storm basically because she found him.

The overall plan is also just very basic. The problem with all of the X-Men films after X2 and First Class was that Fox tried to cram as much in them as possible instead of letting them breathe.

Imagine for instance if Apocalypse had taken that first half of the plot but it was all Sinister as the villain moving things into place for the rise of Apocalypse at the end of the first film. And then the second movie dealt with the fallout. The first could have given us more on Warren, Storm, Kurt and the others. Magneto's plot could have been drawn out a bit more to make the hurt of losing his family even worse than it was to really drive home his motivation. And Psylocke could have had some actual characterization (poor Olivia Munn tried). Fox's refusal to really give these movies the time needed is why they feel so crammed and everything falls apart. The Last Stand was the best example of this by trying to shoehorn the cure in with Dark Phoenix.

Kinberg's Dark Phoenix partly suffers as a result of the failures with Apocalypse. Because Storm and Kurt are little more than window dressing in Apocalypse, they come across the same in Dark Phoenix. And because Scott and Jean didn't really develop a full relationship until Dark Phoenix, that too comes across as forced and the romance is just not there. Ultimately, the decision to focus so heavily on Xavier, Magneto, Beast, and Mystique really hurt the development of any sort of ensemble. Jean at least got some development just by the fact she is the main character in Dark Phoenix. But the rest? Forgettable for the most part. And honestly, her Phoenix Force in Apocalypse is another example of shoehorning in plot- and then that seems to be promptly forgotten about when they send her into space for Dark Phoenix.

 

I'll go so far as to say I like it less than The Last Stand and Origins: Wolverine, because at least they're both under two hours, and therefore have the good sense to waste less of my time.

 

Well if this holds New Mutants tickets will go on sale next week.

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/new-mutants-disney-movie-theaters-august-release-1234731537/

 

My local theatre in Canada, Hamilton Ontario has a whole weekend just booked with Unhinged and Spongebob movie on basically 8 out of 10 screens so I think we're at least definitely getting New Mutants, not sure what's going to happen in the US though.

 

Give it a day or two. I imagine tomorrow or Friday there could possibly be a delay announcement. I could be wrong.

 

The rumor on New Mutants is that old deals require it to release in theaters and then it may have to go a year on HBO. So, they might just rip the band aid off on this one and let it run as planned.

 

AMC just sent an email that they're planning on reopening in some areas on the 20th of August and 2/3 of all theaters by 3-Sep, and they're intentionally keeping The New Mutants on the schedule for 28-Aug to keep this going.

 

I think New Mutants is basically going to be Disney's canary in the coalmine first theatrical test release that will also get the Fox contract theatrical release out of the way to get it on streaming sooner than later. It is definitely going to hit internationally and maybe a few theatres in the US that makes it "count" as a release. Basically, theatrical exhibition is a worldwide business and since that business is able to open in places that aren't America, studios can't hold onto stuff and hope that the US will suddenly get it's act together in a week.

I'm actually curious about the Bill and Ted VOD situation in Canada in 2 weeks, like I said we're getting the Spongebob movie this weekend which got punted to VOD in the US for 2021. Hopefully Bill and Ted just slips under the radar for VOD Canada as opposed to just exclusively theatrical or no release at all.

 

New Mutants will be playing at a drive-in theater about 25 miles where I live starting this Friday and it's going to play on more than one screen. I'm trying to convince my wife to go. I haven't been to a drive-in theater since the 90's. I remember Titanic being one of the last films I saw in a drive-in theater. I wonder if it will be crowded.

 

I mean, can Disney lose money on this since they didn't pay to make it in the first place?

 

I would think only if Disney spent money on marketing this movie. My wife doesn't even remember seeing the trailer for New Mutants.

The film hasn't been advertised in my neck of the woods of California because of all the theaters being shut down. Not sure if Disney advertised this movie in area where theaters are open.

I know a YouTuber that I follow is driving four hours from LA to Las Vegas to see the movie tomorrow.

 

Welp, looks like some of the rumors about the movie were grounded in some reality even if nothing actually changed...

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-new-mutants-apparently-had-some-serious-behind-the-1844872053

 

I got my tickets for Saturday. I don't expect much, but it'll be nice to be out. And it's free too thanks to A-List. I'll go with an open mind.