main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

CT Yoda lifting the X-Wing... my problem with it.

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Jay Kenobi, Nov 20, 2020.

  1. Jay Kenobi

    Jay Kenobi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2020
    Many fans cite this moment as one of those magical scenes in the entire franchise. The cinematography, the score, Yoda's incredible monologue about the force... I totally get it. It's a very well done scene on a technical level.

    I have a small problem with it though, and it's something I don't usually see brought up.

    It's redundant.

    The problem is that the movie had already made it very clear that jedi can use the force to move objects with their mind. We'd seen Luke do it twice up until that point. First on Hoth with the lightsaber and then during his training with Yoda as he lifted the rocks off the ground. Sure we hadn't seen him move anything as large as an x-wing before... but then is that really such an awe inspiring reveal? "Oh wow I knew the force could move objects but not LARGE objects?"

    From a storytelling perspective wouldn't it have made more sense to keep that ability a secret from the audience until it was time for Yoda to raise the ship out of the swamp? Wouldn't that have made for a much better scene?
     
    CampOfSorgan likes this.
  2. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    sorry man but no. It's a beautiful scene.
     
  3. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    Here's the thing about the X-wing. Luke has been able to use the force to lift things that he could also lift with his own physical strength. Luke had yet to experience using the force to lift something that was beyond his physical capabilities. It was another threshold that Luke had to cross.
     
  4. Jay Kenobi

    Jay Kenobi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2020
    This is a fair assessment I suppose.
     
    CampOfSorgan likes this.
  5. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    Yoda tells Luke he must unlearn what he has learned. Luke knows he has the ability to touch this energy field known as the force, but he's having trouble truly imaging what is capable with it. And Luke will need that knowledge if he plans on facing the Emperor. In Luke's mind, the X-wing is too heavy. Yoda must prove him wrong.

    It's the same thing that's going on in The Matrix when Neo has to jump from one building to another in his training for the first time. He sort of understands that it's possible (after all, Luke does nudge that X-wing a little) but ultimately he doesn't really KNOW it's possible yet. And both Neo and Luke fail at their first attempt.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    Sith Lord 2015 and Jay Kenobi like this.
  6. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Was just thinking of this scene the other day, and how Luke says "We'll never get it out now!". Made me think, what was his original plan for getting it out? It's not like there's a crane or other heavy lifting machinery on Dagobah. Which I guess means the X-wing needs to be able to use its repulsors to lift itself out? Were they damaged in the crash? Did Luke have a way of repairing them before the ship sank into the water?
     
    CampOfSorgan and BookExogorth like this.
  7. BookExogorth

    BookExogorth Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2017
    ... yes?
     
  8. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    I don't think there was a plan. Had Luke been smarter he would have slowed down before landing in the first place. Instead he crashed through trees at full speed, having no clue what the ground was like and how far below. That part really bothered me. Luke was shown to be a good pilot before, but not even an idiot would fly through fog with zero visibility at that speed. His approach should have been MUCH slower, allowing him to find a safe place to land. Also no idea why he didn't activate the repulsors right after he crashed into the swamp. I don't think they were damaged. You would think a fighter like an X-Wing would be more robust and not be seriously damaged by a few tree branches. Also, why not use shields? I think Luke made lots of stupid mistakes on Dagobah. Any pilot with half a brain would have put down the ship safely first, THEN start unloading all that (unnecessary?) stuff, only take his weapons and explore the immediate surroundings first. I like the movie, but "landing" on Dagobah Luke acted like a moron. Without Yoda he would have been dead for sure.
    The crew of the Nostromo did a much better job landing, and that ship had thousands times more mass and must have been much harder to maneuver.
     
    Alpha-Red likes this.
  9. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    Luke says that in response to his ship sinking. Before, it was just sort of hanging out on the surface.

    I'm fairly certain that Yoda caused that crash with the force so that Luke would end up in a predetermined area under predetermined circumstances.
     
    Sith Lord 2015 and Iron_lord like this.
  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I'd say that the reason it is completely intact after being lifted out of the swamp - no obvious signs of damage anywhere - is that it did have the shields up when it went through those branches and wasn't damaged in any way in the crash.
     
    LedReader, Sarge and Sith Lord 2015 like this.
  11. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    I never even considered that possibility. Sure, it's thinkable. While I don't think Yoda actually made Luke crash, I do believe he somehow guided him. After all how would Luke know how to find Yoda on an entire planet? It's not that Obi-Wan's ghost gave Luke GPS coordinates, or that they have place names on Dagobah. But wouldn't Luke, or at least R2, have found it strange if the ship became uncontrollable and commented on it? At least you would expect an astromech droid to tell the pilot "hey, why are you going so fast? We can't see anything at all" or something like that. We also know that R2 is capable of flying an X-Wing by himself. He suggested as much after they left Hoth.
    If Yoda was involved, it would have made more sense to let Luke land safely, without risking losing the ship. He could still have taught the lesson of lifting it from the ground. Or did Yoda still have that small ship somewhere that he used to get to Dagobah in the first place in ROTS? Without it even Yoda wouldn't have been able to get Luke off the planet.
     
  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Apparently he used parts from it for his hut after it began to degrade:

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/E3-standard_starship_lifeboat
     
  13. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    OK, in that case none of them would have had any hope of ever leaving Dagobah if Luke's X-Wing had been permanently damaged or Yoda failed to get it out of the swamp. Not really a pleasant situation. Sure, Yoda probably had planned to stay there in exile for the rest of his life, but Luke wouldn't have been that happy about it.
    As for the article, I think it's not quite correct. I haven't seen the movie in a while, but I'm 90% sure we see Yoda's ship when he says goodbye to Chewie on Kashyyk. Am I wrong? I know Yoda landing on Dagobah is only in the deleted scene, but we do see him take off from Kashyyk in ROTS.
    In any case, it would have been very selfish and unfair of Yoda to make Luke crash and force him to be stranded on Dagobah for the rest of his life. I mean, the X-Wing could have been damaged beyond repair by the crash plus being in a swamp for weeks (or months?). And I don't think Dagobah has that many spare parts shops to repair it.
    Or did Luke have any means at all to contact the Rebels for help? I doubt it. Is that mentioned anywhere? Certainly not in the movie or novelization.
     
  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The one used in the escape from Kashyyyk is a different size as I recall.

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/E3-standard_starship_lifeboat/Legends

    This pod is one of two used by Yoda in Revenge of the Sith, and the art department ensured the two were visually different from one another.


    The point made by the article is that the pod Yoda used to land on Dagobah is now useless due to the environment and Yoda having to dismantle it for parts.
     
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  15. CampOfSorgan

    CampOfSorgan Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2020
    It's one of my favorite scenes in the entire saga. Truly inspiring.
     
    christophero30 and Iron_lord like this.
  16. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    OK, I didn't know that. In any case Luke would have been stranded on Dagobah without his X-Wing. So it was vital for him to keep it intact. And getting it out of the swamp required Yoda's help. I'm not sure if R2 could have activated the ship somehow. We know he can operate under water. So maybe he could somehow have activated the repulsors to lift it to dry ground? Surely it was impossible for Luke to enter the cockpit under water. And Yoda was stuck anyway without his ship. Even considering his size, it would have been difficult for him to fit in the small cockpit of the one-man fighter, together with Luke.
    Again, any sources that say Luke was able to contact the Rebels from Dagobah? Possibly from the X-Wing, but of course he couldn't get into it.
     
  17. YT-2400

    YT-2400 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Hm, I've never once gotten any impression that Yoda influenced where or how Luke landed on Dagobah.

    So then Yoda clouded him and the ship enough to cause him to crash just in case he needed to use the ship as an object lesson later??
     
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  18. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Maybe he could've reached out to Leia through the Force and she could come pick him up? Or Ahsoka...or Ezra...or any of those other Order 66 survivors, lol.

    lol, I was thinking of this as well. But while R2 might be waterproof, and so might the X-wing's outer hull...the X-wing's innards certainly wouldn't be. Once he opens up the maintenance hatch or whatever to get to work, water goes in and messes everything up.
     
    Sarge and Sith Lord 2015 like this.
  19. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    I agree. I still recall how Luke had used much effort just to get his lightsaber, while being a captive inside that cave on Hoth.
     
    Sarge and sithboy like this.
  20. Jay Kenobi

    Jay Kenobi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2020
    If Yoda is powerful enough to manipulate physics in outer space and draw Luke's ship to his exact position, then there is no reason he shouldn't be playing a more active role in the fight against the empire. Training Luke can wait. ;)
     
  21. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    It’s the difference between using the Force to lift a TV remote vs lifting a car from the bottom of a lake. That was the entire point. The Force was just that powerful.
     
    FightoftheForgotten and sithboy like this.
  22. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Sure, using the Force for communication might have been possible. But how many Force users were there who were not in hiding or otherwise out of reach? Leia was trapped inside an asteroid in a damaged ship that could just barely make it to Bespin for repairs, but only because it was close enough. Once on Bespin she soon became a captive herself and couldn't have done much. Even on Bespin, when Luke called out to her she only got a vague feeling Luke was in trouble, no specifics. So she wasn't really that strong with the Force. Maybe Vader could have tortured Han some more to find out where Luke was to get him himself. But then again I think neither Han nor Leia knew Luke was on Dagobah. And Vader himself sure had no clue, otherwise no need to get Luke to Bespin at all. If he could sense where Luke was, why not directly go to Dagobah and fight him there?
    As for other Jedi survivors, in the OT they didn't exist. So even if Yoda knew them in the prequels, in ESB he didn't, and all we knew was that he was the last surviving Jedi. Maybe he could have asked Obi-Wan to appear to the Rebels and have them rescue Luke. But we don't know if Force ghosts can be called at all, or if they just appear and disappear whenever they feel like it.:confused:
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020 at 4:17 AM
  23. sithboy

    sithboy Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Dec 15, 2000
    I also felt it was a way for Yoda to teach Luke about his potential when he had the Force as his ally.
    That’s why the quote “Judge me by my size” was very relevant to the lesson.

    Great scene imho.....and JW amazing score!!!

    Stay safe amigos!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020 at 1:52 PM