PT Yoda's Decision To Go Into Exile: Noble or Self-Serving?

At the end of Yoda's duel with Palpatine, he remarks to Bail Organa "Into exile I must go- failed I have". I have interpreted this to mean that Yoda felt that he had failed in his leadership of the Jedi due to(as the Senior Novelization states) failing to progress the Jedi out of the archaic dogmatic ways that blinded them to the realities of the Living Force and doing what is right(I.E rescuing Shmi from slavery and letting the Jedi fall in love) and instead letting themselves become slaves of the corruption of the Republic which allowed the Sith to destroy them. Yoda taking some time to mediate on the Force and unravel the reasons why the Jedi failed in addition to helping them rebuild again is not an unwise decision but is going into exile for good a noble decision for Yoda to make? It is true that resistance to Palpatine's regime would not be a wise thing to do right away, not when the voices of public opinion are so firmly on his side, and that biding your time for a while is not a wise move but why didn't Yoda seek to unite the Jedi survivors? The Great Jedi Purge would go on for years afterwards and if Yoda had united them in some way when the time was right they could have proved instrumental to stopping the Empire. Yoda was the only Jedi that Palpatine was ever afraid of and he expressed that if the Jedi were to resurface then it would be Yoda who would be responsible(). It seems as if Yoda's decision can be looked at as him going into hiding in order to punish himself for his failures choosing to wallow in self pity and to bide his time in order to train the Skywalkers(who weren't the only way to stop the Emperor IMO). He only really wanted to train Leia and when that was not possible he had very little faith before and during his training with Luke that Luke would be able to defeat the Emperor and Vader. Even on his deathbed he really doesn't seem that sure that Luke will not fall to the Dark Side. Should Yoda not have put himself into exile and instead bid his time only to resurface when the time was right? Or was going into exile a noble choice at first but then led to embittering Yoda into not really believing that the Dark Side could be defeated at last even though he made a last ditch effort to do so? Or do you feel that Yoda was really more optimistic/hopeful about Luke and Leia's chances to defeat the Emperor then he appears to be and that his decision to go into exile was the only way to defeat the Emperor once and for all?

 

No. When he says "Into exile I must go. Failed I have.", it simply means he failed to destroy the Sith Lord, which is what he set out to do.

He didn't fail as a Jedi, or in leading the Jedi, or following the Jedi way. Letting Jedi fall in love is not doing what is right. Following the Jedi way didn't blind them of anything. The "reality of the living Force" is never ignored by the Jedi. It's acknowledged by the Jedi. And cherrypicking Shmi is playing favorites and ignoring the actual issue: slavery in the Outer Rim. That's not something that the Jedi are responsible for.

The Jedi are not slaves of the Republic or responsible for its corruption. The Jedi are servants of the Republic.

And his exile is not self-serving, or or self-punishing, or selfish, as made evident when he says:

"Until the time is right, disappear we will."

It's simply a matter of survival with the intent to reappear later.

 

Him failing to defeat Palpatine was not the only reason he went into exile- and no the Jedi did become slaves of the Republic as they saw nothing wrong with going against their own values/code and served a corrupt government in a war against many star systems that were dissatisfied with the corruption in the Senate. The Jedi way was narrow and dogmatic and became tired and archaic. Jedi developing attachments and feelings towards other people should be allowed as it is only human to do so. Luke knew that and it was this love that led him to saving Vader and his friends. The Jedi Order was greatly flawed in this era and they payed the price. As for Shmi they should have fought harder against the evils of slavery. They are keepers of the peace and justice. Slavery is not peace nor is it just. They may not have the sole power to extend the Republic's control everywhere but doing nothing to stop the Republic's tolerance of corruption and slavery are not noble actions.

 

Yoda states that he must go into exile because he knows that he cannot defeat Sidious and if he were to die, his knowledge would be lost. He is already aware of the Jedi Purge long before it happened and he knows that at some point, he will do something of great importance. Something that he started to train for, months before the Outer Rim Sieges began. Once he learns that Padme is pregnant with Anakin's children, does he realize what it is that he and Obi-wan have to do.

As to attachments, no. Attachments are bad. Compassion, which is unconditional love for others, is essential.

"The Jedi are trained to let go. They're trained from birth," he continues, "They're not supposed to form attachments. They can love people- in fact, they should love everybody. They should love their enemies; they should love the Sith. But they can't form attachments. So what all these movies are about is: greed. Greed is a source of pain and suffering for everybody. And the ultimate state of greed is the desire to cheat death."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 213.

"It's about a good boy who was loving and had exceptional powers, but how that eventually corrupted him and how he confused possessive love with compassionate love. That happens in Episode II: Regardless of how his mother died, Jedis are not supposed to take vengeance. And that's why they say he was too old to be a Jedi, because he made his emotional connections. His undoing is that he loveth too much."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine Interview; June 2005.

"This is obviously a very pivotal scene for Anakin because this is reuniting with his mother and his youth and at the same time dealing with his inability to let go of his emotions and allow himself to accept the inevitable. The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can't hold onto things which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn't willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he'd have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn't have this particular connection as strong as it is and he'd have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them. But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation. And it feeds into fear of losing things, which feeds into greed, wanting to keep things, wanting to keep his possessions and things that he should be letting go of. His fear of losing her turns to anger at losing her, which ultimately turns to revenge in wiping out the village. The scene with the Tusken Raiders is the first scene that ultimately takes him on the road to the dark side. I mean he's been prepping for this, but that's the one where he's sort of doing something that is completely inappropriate."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"The scene in the garage here, we begin to see that what he's really upset about is the fact that he's not powerful enough. That if he had more power, he could've kept his mother. He could've saved her and she could've been in his life. That relationship could've stayed there if he'd have been just powerful enough. He's greedy in that he wants to keep his mother around, he's greedy in that he wants to become more powerful in order to control things in order to keep the things around that he wants. There's a lot of connections here with the beginning of him sliding into the dark side. And it also shows his jealousy and anger at Obi-Wan and blaming everyone else for his inability to be as powerful as he wants to be, which he hears that he will be, so here he sort of lays out his ambition and you'll see later on his ambition and his dialogue here is the same as Dooku's. He says "I will become more powerful than every Jedi." And you'll hear later on Dooku will say "I have become more powerful than any Jedi." So you're going start to see everybody saying the same thing. And Dooku is kind of the fallen Jedi who was converted to the dark side because the other Sith Lord didn't have time to start from scratch, and so we can see that that's where this is going to lead which is that it is possible for a Jedi to be converted. It is possible for a Jedi to want to become more powerful, and control things. Because of that, and because he was unwilling to let go of his mother, because he was so attached to her, he committed this terrible revenge on the Tusken Raiders."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"The key part of this scene ultimately is Anakin saying "I'm not going to let this happen again." We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi. The only way you can really do that is to go to the dark side because the dark side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the dark side, but ultimately it would be your undoing. But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and to allow the natural course of life to go on, which is that things come and go, and to be able to accept the changes that happen around you and not want to keep moments forever frozen in time."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"When you get down to where we are right now in the story, you basically get somebody who’s going to make a pact with the Devil, and it’s going to be a pact with the Devil that says, 'I want the power to save somebody from death. I want to be able to stop them from going to the river Styx, and I need to go to a god for that, but the gods won’t do it, so I’m going to go down to Hades and get the Dark Lord to allow me to have this power that will allow me to save the very person I want to hang on to.' You know, it’s Faust. So Anakin wants that power, and that is basically a bad thing. If you’re going to sell your soul to save somebody you love, that’s not a good thing. That’s as we say in the film, unnatural. You have to accept that natural course of life. Of all things. Death is obviously the biggest of them all. Not only death for yourself but death for the things you care about."

--George Lucas, quoted in J. Windolf, “Star Wars: The Last Battle,” Vanity Fair, 2005.

"It really has to do with learning," Lucas says, "Children teach you compassion. They teach you to love unconditionally. Anakin can't be redeemed for all the pain and suffering he's caused. He doesn't right the wrongs, but he stops the horror. The end of the Saga is simply Anakin saying, I care about this person, regardless of what it means to me. I will throw away everything that I have, everything that I've grown to love- primarily the Emperor- and throw away my life, to save this person. And I'm doing it because he has faith in me; he loves me despite all the horrible things I've done. I broke his mother's heart, but he still cares about me, and I can't let that die. Anakin is very different in the end. The thing of it is: The prophecy was right. Anakin was the chosen one, and he does bring balance to the Force. He takes the one ounce of good still left in him and destroys the Emperor out of compassion for his son."

Anakin Skywalker's final confrontation with the Emperor occurs during Luke's final confrontation with the Emperor, which compliments his father's dealings with the same man many years earlier. Indeed the life of the father and the life of the son are commentaries on each other.

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 221.

 

OK, hold up — if Yoda knew the Jedi Purge was inevitable, why didn’t he do something to stop it? This makes him come off as either hilariously incompetent or an actual jackass who willfully allowed the entire Order to perish.

 

Yoda is just tired of fighting, he is nearly 900 years old, he needed to rest already.

 

Yoda doesn't know how or when the Purge will happen. He just knew that dark times were ahead for the Jedi and that they would suffer a serious blow. He did try to stop it during his journey to the Force planet and to Moraband, home of the Sith. But as part of his test, he had to decide which was more important; discovering the identity of Darth Sidious or saving the Chosen One. He chooses to save Anakin in his vision and thus gives up on his chance to save the Jedi Order. Had he chosen to discover Palpatine's identity, he would have failed his test and destroy everything, including himself. By saving Anakin, even though the Purge would happen, he found the means of destroying the Sith. Namely the offspring of the Chosen One.

 

I feel that the destruction of the Jedi Order was necessary in order for Anakin to fulfill the prophecy and also Anakin needed to turn to the dark side to do it.

 

Why? The Jedi Order didn't need to die. Maybe evolve, but it didn't require a genocide. And Anakin didn't need to turn in order for him to fulfill the prophecy. He could have done it in Palpatine's office, when he had two opportunities to have done the right thing. But once he has turned, then it is the only way he could destroy Sidious. But he still needed Luke to help him get there.

 

Noble or Self-Serving?

Neither.

 

I have wondered before what might have been possible if Yoda & Obi-Wan had just spent years plotting the perfect one chance opportunity to take Sidious out as a duo when Anakin was away on mission or something.

 

I don't see it as either. Yoda failed to defeat Darth Sidious, and wasn't sure of his next step. He knew he couldn't just hang around Coruscant, as the Dark Lord would find him and execute him. He had to flee, and rendezvous with Kenobi.

Yoda had to put trust in the force for what would come next. He should've united the surviving Jedi (Caleb Dume, Quinlan Vos, etc.), but that too could've put him back out in the open. It's complicated to say the least.

 

Because they cannot defeat him. They both realize that after all was said and done. Palpatine was too powerful for both Jedi and the only way to defeat Sidious was to do something different. A straight forward attack would never work. Only the Chosen One could do what was necessary and he could only do it by rejecting the dark side in his heart, acknowledging who he was and then doing what needed to be done.

 

Yoda's announcement that he was going into exile was too placid, like he was cool with it, almost. No concern, or uncertainty in the delivery or animation, as though it was nothing more than moving to a new house.

 

What on earth are you talking about? No concern or uncertainty? The shame and dejection in Frank Oz's delivery is palpable.

 

Even if Anakin had "done the right thing" by defeating Palpatine, the Jedi Order would have remained as dogmatic and narrow-minded as ever. What would have changed for them?

 

I'm sorry, but it was a bad reading. I don't blame Frank Oz for it, though. George Lucas seems to have not been so interested in the actors as the CG. Like at the end of Attack of the Clones, Yoda's lines are given a terrible reading, throughout. Like his final line in the film. And who could ever forget the immortal, "...ar arou the survivors, a perimeter create." Lucas seems to have dealt better with the Yoda character when he was a puppet in Episode 1.

 

We're not talking about that other line. We're talking about the one you just brought up. Yoda's voice literally breaks as he's saying it. No concern or uncertainty? I don't think you're being fair.

 

It just fell flat. I'm not trying to convince anyone. For me, it doesn't work. Oz didn't sound like going into exile was an ordeal for Yoda, more something he was simply resigned to. It missed the mark. I'm not trying to be a professional drama critic, or anything. It just didn't register for me, that's all.

 

You can see that Yoda is very much defeated and broken, as Palpatine had intended. He knew that if he could never get him with Order 66, at the very least he would suffer immense guilt over losing almost all of the Jedi. Why would it be an ordeal for him? He's a Jedi and Jedi have better control over their emotions than others.

How were they dogmatic and narrow minded?

 

As far as I can tell, the OP never manages to explain what was self-serving about it or why.

Individuals, if nothing else. Many Jedi died during the war. New blood would rise.

Perhaps the revelation that a Sith Lord managed to become Supreme Chancellor right under their noses would be a wake up call.

Then again, I don’t have the same opinion of them as you do.

 

Depends on what you consider self-serving.

He had no realistic chance of defeating Sidious at that point. Yoda would have had every disadvantage going back into the arena, and I'm pretty confident Sidious would have beaten him fatally this time.

However, Yoda did have Jedi knowledge to pass down, and he was one of two people that he knew of who could teach future generations. He may or may not have known at that instant about the Skywalker twins about to be born, but he knew that going back to resume the duel with Sidious would have been putting the future of the Jedi teachings on the line. At that time, Yoda also had no guarantee that Obi-Wan would win against Vader, though he did.

I'm not concerned with Oz's delivery, personally, but I think he sounded weary and sad without betraying more emotion than the character has been trained to.

 

I think it was intended to be noble, but I think the way it was written and portrayed it kind of comes off as self serving.

 

When watching the PT and OT, I always like to assume that the Jedi masters make decisions based on future-sight and intuition as much as rational thinking. When Yoda and Windu talk about how the dark side has compromised the Jedi Council's ability to see things through the Force, I took that to mean that they spend most of their time doing just that, gazing into the future, past and present for knowledge in order to make correct decisions.

I'm not sure that Yoda knew Luke would be the one to defeat Palpatine and that he needed to hide out in order to one day train him, but he did know that he still had some role to play in defeating the Sith. It's nothing like Luke's exile in TLJ for example. When he learned of Luke and Leia, I think he then knew that they would be the key to defeating the Sith.

 

I think one issue with the movies is what the "Chosen One" prophecy means, how to take it, and how seriously to take it. Was Anakin the only one who could "bring balance to the Force", and did that mean, only he could defeat/destroy Palpatine?