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PT "You were the Chosen One!" -- Tragic or Ironic?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by enigmaticjedi, Feb 12, 2016.

  1. enigmaticjedi

    enigmaticjedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2011
    In ROTS, Anakin's descent to the dark side was tragic for several reasons. One of them was that he was "supposed to destroy the Sith, not join them. Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness."

    Nevertheless, at this point, Anakin was not powerful enough to stop Sidious. This dilemma leaves us with two options: Anakin's descent was either tragic or ironic regarding the prophecy.

    If Mace Windu had a chance to defeat Sidious with Anakin's help, then Anakin's descent would be tragic. He would have forfeited an opportunity to restore the balance of the Force.

    Conversely, if Anakin could not have helped Windu defeat Sidious, then his descent would have been ironic. Why ironic? Well, Anakin was only able to defeat Sidious because he became his apprentice. Sidious was arrogant enough to believe Anakin could never come back from the dark side to help Luke. This arrogance enabled Anakin to catch Sidious off-guard.

    If the chosen one prophecy was ironic, then this raises interesting questions.

    Was Anakin destined to become Darth Vader? (in-universe)
    From a certain Utilitarian point of view, is the galaxy better off because of the path Anakin took?
    If Anakin chose not to join the dark side, would he have failed the prophecy?
     
  2. Sepra

    Sepra Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2016
  3. Seagoat

    Seagoat Skywalker Saga and Music Section Moderatator star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Both

    It is, by definition, irony

    And if you don't think the last half of ROTS is tragic, then I can't imagine what atrocities would have to be considered so
     
  4. themoth

    themoth Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Yep, it's both.

    The tone of the second half still affects me emotionally. There's really dark subject matter in ROTS. But the ending shot on Tattooine still manages to give me chills. A New Hope indeed.
     
  5. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    I also think it is both.
     
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  6. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Anakin was destined to destroy the Sith eventually, whether he was destined to become Vader or not. He destroyed the Sith and then he died. Not a coincidence
     
  7. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    anakin is the only one who could have killed palps. anakin could have killed palps both times in rots and fulfilled the prophecy. he chose not to even though it was his sworn duty.
     
  8. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I don't think Anakin was the only one who could bring balance to the Force. He was the one who would, though.
     
  9. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    the whole point about anakin is that he's the only one who can.
     
  10. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    That's your interpretation.
    What we know about the prophecy is that it says that the Chosen One will bring balance to the Force. That can be interpreted in a number of ways.
    I see it as the prophet simply foreseeing that it will happen. Others could physically have done it, but Anakin is the one who ends up doing it and that is what has been foretold.

    EDIT: I could be wrong, of course, but that's my take on it at this moment.
     
  11. Sith_Smuggler

    Sith_Smuggler Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 9, 2016

    ...makes me cry like a little girl. My god, is that moving.
     
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  12. ChefCurryWindu

    ChefCurryWindu Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015

    [​IMG]

    Strongly agreed, I remember watching this for the first time, and hearing the music, feeling sad that the Jedi were all but gone with the remaining ones forced into hiding, the Empire at it's place, and Anakin turned to the iconic Darth Vader everyone was accustomed to seeing in the OT. This scene in particular symbolizes that eventually A New Hope will emerge for the galaxy that will finally overcome the Empire, and redeem Anakin from the Dark Side.
     
  13. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    not what gl says. anakin IS the chosen one. he was created by the force for that express purpose. no one else was created by the force itself.
     
  14. Warren Moonwalker

    Warren Moonwalker Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2015
    to be honest, i don't think it was in any of the jedi's best interests to directly confront palpatine by the time he became chancellor. it would look bad either way. jedi attacking the chancellor of the republic. and the 'can' and 'would' in anakin's case are interchangeable because it's a prophecy so it's destiny, you can't fight it. it was more of a question of when and how it would play out, not who the characters involved were. it didn't have to get as far as it did (or maybe it did?). i always imagined the idea of the balancing had to do with the two sides (jedi/sith) and their actual numbers of members devoted to their ideals when studying the force and/or smearing the ideals of both sides. the only thing that's REALLY evident to me is that both sides were at "the rule of two" level by the time of RotJ. so their numbers were balanced hence why i feel that actual devotees is what the prophecy was really about. it would be cool if there was some actual WRITTEN evidence of the prophecy (journal of the whillis?) to compare language
     
  15. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying is that him being the Chosen One doesn't mean that noone else is physically capable of performing an act that would bring balance to the Force. All it means is that he is the one who ends up doing it.

    I mean, any old Jedi would possess the ability to pick up a an old man and throw him down a shaft.
    Anakin is the only one who picks up and throws down an old man whose demise brings the Force back into balance, though. He was in the right place at the right time.
     
  16. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    enigmaticjedi wrote

    Was Anakin destined to become Darth Vader? (in-universe)

    and furthermore was Luke destined to bring him back? ;)

    BEN They must be delivered safely or
    other star systems will suffer the
    same fate as Alderaan. Your destiny
    lies along a different path than
    mine. The Force will be with you...
    always!

    The true irony, IMHO, is that Luke is being told that in order to fulfill his destiny he must kill his father, while in fact he fulfills the destiny by not doing so.