'Your story is ready, please drive through', Is Fast food Fan fic a bad thing?

I'll say this, I've never even considered submitting the one epic-length story I wrote to the Archives. Why? Because one, it's 375 pages, which means that that is a lot of pages for two beta readers to go through. Short stories I would consider, and vignettes.

And like someone else said, the ratio of feedback is much higher for vignettes and the like. And writing vignettes or short stories means you can experiment with a wide variety of characters as the center and ideas, etc. And writing epics can burn you out man.

LJS

EDIT: And may I say that I love the title of this thread? It makes me laugh every time I see it Great job!

 

Speaking as a reader, I prefer to read epics, but I usually wait until they're finished because I want to read it all at once and not get hung off a cliff, or get emotionally invested in abandoned fics.

 

Viggies? Easier for newbies? Not necessarily. My second post was the first chappie of Winds of Change. Never thought twice. Viggie reviewers are transient, epic reviewers stay loyal.

 

epic reviewers stay loyal

That's mostly true with short stories too.

 

It's also more than that. When I post on my epic, I usually post a 8-10 page word doc per post. A viggie may be 2-5 pages. A lot of effort in the epic. Don't get me wrong. As a writer, I'm much more satisfied with the writing of the longer post.

But viggies are also great because you write them and then set them free - they don't continue to haunt your every darn waking moment.

And, as mentioned above, they can help get your creative juices flowing again.

 

ZebulaNebula posted on 5/26/05 9:00pm

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Viggie reviewers are transient, epic reviewers stay loyal.
[hr][/blockquote]

I beg to differ, I think 'epic'/short story readers often fall into a bit of complacentcy.. always meaning to replay "Next Time"...


(Yes, I admit I'm guilty of it. [face_blush] )




(Hey, do I get a brownie point for creating a 'hopping thread' here in [i]Resource[/i] that isn't a firestorm? [face_tongue] )

 

Lt_Jaina_Solo wrote: I'll say this, I've never even considered submitting the one epic-length story I wrote to the Archives. Why? Because one, it's 375 pages, which means that that is a lot of pages for two beta readers to go through.

I'm submitting mine eventually, even though it's now 530+ pages long. Because I'm evil.

One of my longtime readers volunteered to beta, and I was going to try and conscript my dad, who hopefully will feel guilty if he says no. Actually, I'll probably ask 3-5 people, on the assumption that at least a couple will give up.

I expect to wait at least 6 months to hear back from the archive, since it'll probably take that long to get 2 reviewers to take it and read it, but I'm submitting it anyway. <Monty Python> Joost ta show 'em!! </Monty Python>

JFWIW, you can choose anyone you want to be a beta reader--they don't have to be off the beta readers index list. Not everyone knows that.

 

I wrote one story that took me well over a year to complete. Granted I was writing three other not short stories at the same time, but still. For a while I was pretty burnt out, but I jumped back into it with more stories. Currently I'm writing on three stories. They won't be epics, but I can't seem to write short stories either.

I don't know that I want to write another really long story. It was painful to a certain extent, but it's still the story that I'm most proud of.

That said, at this moment I'm currently writing a RotS vignette because this plot bunny has been chasing me and beating me and demanding to be written since I first saw RotS. And yes this would probably work better as a story rather than vignette, but that won't happen. I'm simply too busy to write another full length story right now and writing this viggie is the only way to get this bunny to leave me alone.

I currently have three WIP's on the boards and something like three or four sequels that I've promised and should be working on. I don't think I can handle anything else.

 

I beg to differ, I think 'epic'/short story readers often fall into a bit of complacentcy.. always meaning to replay "Next Time"...

Yes, I agree with that. For epics, you'll generally get a small core of loyal readers, but the majority is still sort of in and out.

But, even though I'm a shameless feedback junkie, I still write more because I have to...i.e. it's just something internal that drives me to write, so I don't write length based on what kind of feedback I can get; and with this new movie, my ideas are still short ones based on individual scenes that struck me in a particular fashion, which, IMO, seems to be what I'm seeing from all these viggies.

 

My flagship piece has a good half dozen regulars with about as many transients.

 

I'm also guilty of thinking that I'll get back to commenting on the epic post and then not . Commenting on the viggie can be easier because you can do it right now and not have to remember what you read/said last time!

 

ophelia wrote: JFWIW, you can choose anyone you want to be a beta reader--they don't have to be off the beta readers index list. Not everyone knows that.

Yeah, I realized that after a while. I have two people (possibly a third and a fourth) who are working with me on two of the longer epics that I'm planning right now (well, both have kind of been put on a back-burner for school, etc.) but we were working together for a bit Both I had had found by posting on the Beta thread, but I've had a total of five beta readers before them- none of which came from that list (at least, not originally)

And JFWIW?

LJS

 

My time estimate on the Renewal arc is roughly 3-5 years. I welcome the stability.

 

My first fic was/is an epic... still on-going and it's getting longer everytime I think about it.

I have been writing a lot of short stories and viggies lately, but most of them are part of a huge series I planned... my Master thinks I'm nuts, but that's ok. She's always thought that.

And, yes, feedback is MUCH better on viggies... my poor long fic is nearly forgotten.

/end pity party

 

[Jimmy_Buffett]Tried vignettes once, made me highly irregular, swore I'd never do it again[/Jimmy_Buffett]. Seriously, it's a personality thing. If you prefer to pop out pretty little pieces, it's your prerogitive, go ahead. Whatever floats your speeder.

Edit: bonus points for anyone who knows where that reference came from.

 

If you prefer to pop out pretty little pieces



Sorry. That just struck me as really funny. But I don't get the reference.

 

The reference is the Jimmy Buffett thing, if no one gets it by tomorrow, I'll explain it. The alliteration was for funny.

 

I agree that there are too many viggies and not enough full-length fics I read a lot of viggies that I don't even reply to. Most the time I'm thinking "haven't I read this before?" And sometimes even wonder what the point was They certainly don't stick with you very long.

There are some, however, that are excellent. And some that I've walked away from in awe of what the writer could do in a few pages.

Some of the people have said that it's the best way to get instant feedback though, and I think that's unfortunate. I know a writer who's working on his third full-length fic in a year and normally only gets one reply per post (sometimes not even that), but he keeps posting regularly and doesn't complain about feedback, or advertise, or change what he's doing in an effort to snag more readers.

I wish more people would look at what he's doing, more as an example than even to give him more readers.

 

Normally, I can't write a short piece of work. Before coming to write on this board, I'd written ONE short story, and had to edit the crap out of it, or it'd have made The Illiad look like a summer camp brochure.

My main problem is that I deal with bipolar disorder and become unfocused and unable to concentrate on one thing for too long a lot of the time, so I leave something on the back burner and get back to it later. I've got over 40 novels started on my hard drive right now, and only one of them is anywhere near completed...and I've been writing it since 1997. I also come back to it and revise it, and the others, a lot.

My first story for the boards was intended to be a novel, but I shortened it out to be a novelette, hopefully without sacrificing much of the story itself. There was only so long I could carry it out. Since then, I've written several vignettes, trying to at least get a feel for the new canon available to us, as LadyPadme said, and for the sake of finishing something, without you having to wait ten years to read the finish of it. In addition, writing the shorter things gives me a better idea of writing for the board here, and for what people like to read.

Though I haven't been here that long, I have been writing for a long time, and audiences influence what you write. They influence it greatly. Since coming here, I've tried to vary my writing quite a bit. Thin Lines is a story that focuses on Padme, and doesn't revolve around Jedi, like most of my stories do, for example. In My Time of Dying focuses on Padme's thoughts towards the end of ROTS. I'm trying to round out my writing style, and my writing material to cover a broader base of readers and preferred types.

Any story, regardless of length, can be a wonderfully executed story. There are some pieces that are long that are tedious and ultimately aggravating reading (certain classic authors come to mind with that statement...and I mean classic as in literary, not classic as in classic stories on the board! *laughs*). Qauntity does not equal quality by any means. I choose stories, personally, to read that sound interesting, and if I'm not interested within the first couple of paragraphs, I let it go and find something else.

Feedback is important to us as writer's. Its nice to hear how much you like a story, how wonderful it was, and so on...but its important to us as writers for our growth if you also tell us what you didn't like about the story. This doesn't mean go off about what you don't like for fifty posts or something...a PM works just as well as anything else. But it is important that we, the writers, know what our audience likes, and what they don't like. If 99% of the readers here can't stand the idea of Padme kissing another guy, for example, tell us. If the readers love the idea of Anakin not turning, or at least not turning the way he did, tell us. Let us know what you think. This helps us write better as writers, it helps us provide stories you want to read more, and it helps you, the reader, develop as a writer as well.

Anyway, that's enough ranting for the moment. I hope it was coherent.

 

I don't mind reading viggies, but I do like the longer ones. It's nice to read something with plot than a lot of short vigs. I have written a couple of viggies, there's nothing wrong with them.

 

Yes, viggies have higher feedback ratio.

I definitely agree that epics hurt. You get to a point so many times where you aren't even sure if you still care what happens in the end. You don't know if it will ever be worth it because it could still go horribly wrong in the end.

Vignettes are for people who fear rejection.

 

I can count on one finger how many vignettes I have written. And that's not counting knuckles! I've actually tried midlength fics, but it gets to the point where DWB sets in. And I can't get it to go anywhere. Currently I'm rewritting one of my old fics Anakin & Anakin, which is a time travel/AU-ish story about Anakin Solo and Anakin Skywalker meeting up. And the reason why I haven't reposted it is because I want to get at least three or four chapters in, so that I don't suddenly drop off in the middle of something.

I think that's why so many writer's don't write epics. They're just so bloody hard. While vignettes take an hour or two, a day at the most. Personally unless it's something that I can't resist I can not write vignettes, which is why I only have one. They're just too short, I like to have plots and character development. To me fanfiction shouldn't just be a slipshod piece of writing that takes forty minutes to write. That's where you get the bad pieces that fill Fanfiction.net, surprisingly enough though we've managed to not get that around here. And I believe that is because we interact with each other so if somebody doesn't write good they get critiqued, and learn how to write better.

I think once the newer writers get comfortable, we'll see longer stories, because they'll be more comfortable and know they can do it without royally screwing up. Patience is a virtue, of course to quote Corran Horn "Just because patience is a virtue, doesn't make impatience a vice."

 

Vignettes are for people who fear rejection.

Sorry Ish, but I had to laugh aloud at that. Every time I write a vig I'm afraid that everyone will hate it. I've poured heart and soul into snapshots before and then been terrified people won't understand them, or they'll hate them.

The simple answer is that writing a vig is different from writing an epic. An epic is gruelling and takes lots of emotional energy, and a particular form of writing style. You have to know how people change and show that change over a long time. You have a long time to build the suspense, but you also have a lot to lose too, however, I've found covering mistakes in epic pieces more easy.

A Vig can be just as grueling (you have no idea how many uncomplete vigs I have) and if you happen to write series of vigs (like I have) it's actually harder to keep the characterisation consistent across them all and still try and get that emotional reaction from readers who generally don't know the characters as well as they would in an epic. You need to have skills in being snappy and building the suspense quickly, but if it goes wrong in a vig then it's obvious that's it's gone wrong.

In a nutshell, both are different, both wane and wax in popularity and both will be here for a while...

Now, why there aren't more RR's, that's the question

Kithera

 

Now, why there aren't more RR's, that's the question

there's a really weird one in The Saga, that's so totally messed up now that I doubt anyone could figure it out without starting at the beginning. And it's like 14 pages long on 50ppp.

And I think that's because we're all independent writers who don't work well with other's writing styles.

 

Now, why there aren't more RR's, that's the question

One reason might be that the writing is inconsistant through the piece but I think it's more that people don't have time to devote to an RR and their own work. I know I did a couple of posts in the Dying of the Light RR in the Before board but I haven't been able to get back to it (because of time and RL - sorry Renata). And As the Furniture Flies on the Saga board died because there was no figuring out the plot ahead of time. For most of the RRs, you really need to figure it out beforehand, have a good idea of where you are going and always have an ending in mind.

Don't get me wrong. It's fun to participate in RRs but sometimes darn hard, too.

But mostly.... time, time, you must find the time.

Edited for linkage