Full Series Let's Fix The Onderon Arc

It's clear to me upon seeing the third episode of this arc that the team doesn't really see these episodes as an overall story. They see it as individual episodes all with the same objective and environment, but all pretty much independent of each other. This changed mostly with the third episode, in which stuff actually happened. But there's so little connection. We need more characters that have an overall arc, development through these FOUR episodes, other than Saw and Steela.

And the crux of all of this is General Tandin. This guy was introduced in the third episode, and has a HUGE role in this arc. Hell, he could be the best character in this thing. But they had to have introduced him in the first episode to establish his role. Instead of essentially being a plot point, he could be a character with a realizable arc. So here's what I would have done.

-Introduce the General in the first episode as an advisor to Sanjay Rash. He's a good man working for a bad man. That's all you have to do. But also show that he's sympathetic to the rebel's plight. General Tandin has the highest stake with the people of Onderon, and his 'approval rating' is higher than either the King or the ex-King. At the end of the first episode, Dooku sends in his advisor droid, driving a permanent wedge between Rash and the General. That's episode 1.

-The second episode can go how it was shown to go, except you see Saw and Steela differ on a point, and that point is trying to recruit General Tandin. We learn that Saw has been secretly meeting with Tandin, and thinks that by using inside information they can take down Rash, but only if they fully get Tandin on their side. But Steela doesn't think they need Tandin, and even thinks that Tandin is a spy for Rash. The brother and sister argue about this point, and then at the end of the episode when Steela is elected to the leadership position, Saw leaves in a huff, not because he wasn't made leader, but because Steela will now do away with their plans for Tandin.

-The third episode would have Saw and Tandin meeting, Saw being captured by a patrol, and Tandin walking back into the shadows, making us think he ordered the patrol to come. Steela would see that his brother met with Tandin, and during the episode that we already saw's conclusion, stage a rescue that ultimately led to an execution. Tandin would rescue them all because he sees that Rash is unfit to rule, and the fourth episode will play out like it probably will.

There's a couple big problems with this arc, and most of it lies with the fact that we know practically nothing about the situation that Onderon is facing before the Jedi arrived. We don't know if the current King is legitimate, whether the people ousted Ramsis, whether General Tandin had a say, or even what Saw and Steela were doing before this happened. We don't know how the people feel about the rebels, whether they think this group who's clearly destroying systems that the entire public uses is even viewed as good or bad. These so called rebels could be terrorists in the eyes of the people. It doesn't look like people are being oppressed. They seem to just be going along with their lives. Sure, Rash is a jerk, but that's what happens sometimes in a monarchy.

So, thoughts on my fixes, and possible fixes that you would make?

 

My list of changes.

-Shorten the training and make it more interested.
-No droid humor
-Rex stays for the arc and get confront by Lux cuz clones killed his father and they have the work past this. Better than the teenage love subplot right?
-Tone down Saw's brooding.
-Cut Steela
-Introduce Tardin
-Introduce Kalani
-Mention Mina Bonteri's role and mesh with HOBS.
-The citizens of Iziz are genuinely scared of the rebels. They don't all agree with them and some even think they are terroists.
-What the hell, Ahsoka is Ahsoka and flat out blows her cover.
-Plot to blow up power plant backfires and scares the rebels more. Rash uses it to his advantage to help turn some of the populous on the rebels. Rash does something.
-"Soft War" happens pretty much as is except the Dendup get executed, this is where more of the populous comes over to the Rebels.

 

darthcaedus1138: definitely agree about Tandin. I sort of liked his argument with Rash... it would have been much better, IMO, if they had explained the situation on Onderon in terms of why the Seps wanted it in the first place, why they put Rash in charge, and why the people hated Rash (if it were me, I'd have him be a man of great expectations with little practical sense, so that the people first buy into him and the later realize, with the help of some clever rebels, that he has no kriffing clue what he's doing). I like your idea of Tandin being the force that drives a wedge in the rebel's cohesive little gang.

THIS. Why the writers didn't immediately jump on this, I have no idea. It would have made Lux a more interesting character!

 

I agree that they should have introduced Tandin earlier. All of the sudden in the third episode he's there and I'm left saying "what? Where did he come from? Why wasn't he around before?"

And I think they should establish that the citizens aren't afraid of the rebels because they don't think they're strong enough to win, but because they present a danger to the common people. Who wants a war in their city, where crap's exploding all over the place and your power is being destroyed by people supposedly fighting for your freedom!? I don't!

ALSO they have to make Kalani significant. I was excited to see him, because he looked like a really cool droid design, but then he showed up and was pointless. Dooku sent him to fix the situation on Onderon when really all Kalani did was the same thing that Rash was doing: "Find the rebels, kill them. Kill them fast. The king is totally conspiring with the rebels from his completely isolated cell where he isn't allowed communications. Kill him too." He ended up just being boring and unnecessary.

The only importance he has is as a rival for Tandin, and a driving force for him to leave Rash's service. "If the King's going to rely on this droid then he doesn't need or want me" But even that is unnecessary.

Actually maybe just get rid of Kalani.

 

The rebels just need to get some Desitin.

The whole thing needed more complexity. Really I thought the 2nd episode started to build this up and get some depth to it, then all that complexity just vanished with the "Lets go blow up the Power Generator" idea. Maybe the writer thought there wasn't enough time, the plots of the last two could have fairly easily been combined into one however. I really thought the convo between Tandin and Saw was really cool as well as the one with Rash. Tandin had potential to be a pretty deep character, he just needed to get introduced earlier. I'm expecting him to be unceremoniously killed off next episode. The same is true of Dendup and the writer could have gone into this Mina Bonteri debacle and used that to deepen his position. Its just a thought.

 

fixing onderon arc? Fire those writers = Fixed!

 

Or scrapping the whole thing and replacing it with another Matt Michnovetz clone arc. =D

 

Seerow I completely agree with your more complexity line. The arc started off so well, with an actually believable Council meeting in which they discussed proxy wars, and then as soon as they got onto Onderon it was the same kind of thing we've seen since Season 1. The absolute worst part is that all of the elements are present to make a great, character driven story that has multiple characters acting on motivations stemming from past events. But nope, Lux is kind of there, no mention of his mother, and as Seerow said, absolutely no problem with working with the people who killed his mom. Even if the Republic told him they didn't kill her, he wouldn't automatically believe it.

They've got all the ingredients to make a tasty dish, but all we're getting is the bland old oatmeal from a couple seasons ago.

And don't even get me started on the 'This is the start of the OT Rebellion!' rhetoric.

Sure. Have him cut off the heads of suspected 'terrorists' who are really civilians. Don't just torture the same guy again and again and wheel him out from time to time. That's not the kind of sinister that moves the story along.

 

Fix it? Just don't do it.

 

Well, Michnovetz is doing the Maul arc as far as I can remember, so you have that to look forward to.

 

Most of what Seerow said, and make it a 2 or 3 ep arc instead of 4.

 

At first I enjoyed the 2nd episode more. I still find it more fun than the first. Still I think about midway threw when the rebels start talking about blowing the power generator up was where it went south. Really everybody seems to know Dooku's thugs killed Mina Bonteri so I don't expect to get conflict that route with Lux. A Friend in Need was the revenge thing. They just needed to mention where she fit into this. I think Lux's daddy is the way to go. He was gunned downed by clones like the guy Anakin brought along to train the rebels. The guy who uncharacteristicly smiled at Lux and tossed him a droid popper. Rex should have stuck around. He could have picked up some more character development. Infact lets play Rex as the one who shot him. Add another layer for Ahsoka to contend with as the rebels actually try to win popular support and the power generator idea backfires. And use the space guillotine. Let Rash actually be evil. Sinse when does TCW shy away from violence?

 

Ever since the start of this arc I have been saying one main thing - A War on Two Fronts and Front Runners should have been one episode with all the extra **** cut out.

Onderon would have been so much better as a trilogy - with better pace also.

 

You can't fix boring, you can only replace it.

 

Well, it's over, so there's nothing we can do now about it.

 

Except fanon the hell out of these four episodes for the fun of it and make the plotholes work.

 

Right on. Complexity was thrown out of the window. The ideas proposed earlier in the thread - that Rash was popular at first but turns out to be out of his depth, that sabotaging the power grid causes the citizenry to turn on the rebels, General Tandin's defection and Ramsis Dendip's execution are what drive the loss of popular support for the CIS, etc. - are good. They comprise a narrative with a moral message about the ethics of insurgency and counter-insurgency. There's meaningful conflict between Lux and Saw as a result of the anti-rebel backlash, as Saw is (as in the original) the one who suggests the sabotage against Lux's recommendations. This presents to the audience a slightly less dubious moral message than the original, namely that you shouldn't expect a warm welcome from a citizenry you subject to hardship (echoes of real-world geopolitics...). What darthcaedus1138 proposed about the dispute between Steela and Saw over Tandin also gives them some meaningful conflict, and the following events turn out to back up Saw's argument, though his rashness' vindication causes him to get cocky and in the next episode his actions with the gunship result in Steela's death. The character of Saw comes full circle by the time he attends Steela's funeral.

This arc should have been Heroes On Both Sides with guns rather than a more polished Dac.

This I agree with. It seems wasteful that Rex was given new combat gear intended to disguise his clone nature and was removed in the second episode.

I'm tempted to say that the arc should have been shorter. As it turned out, the arc didn't deserve more than two or, at the very most, three episodes. However, with some sharper editing (ie. binning most of the filler), a Rex/Lux conflict, the anti-rebel backlash, Saw/Steela/Tandin, et al. could have provided enough material to fill out the arc and engage the viewer.

*

Filoni, Taylor, Michnovetz, Collins or someone else on the writing team should pay attention. The last episode of this arc saved it, but only just. A kneejerk reaction against political complexity should not be the lesson learned from S3. The positive reaction to Umbara and Hardeen should be a message to them that complexity is appreciated if it's well-presented.

My hope is for a future arc focused on the Republic's support for bona fide terrorists. Not friendly neighbourhood insurgents; actual terrorists who target civilians with bloody violence. Perhaps the Sun Guard should feature considering that they're Sith cultists and for various reasons (opposition to "pretenders" like they might think Dooku is, their past betrayal by Dooku and the CIS in C-canon) could align with the Republic and commit violent acts of terrorism against Separatist civilians. There would be a callback to the success of Republic-backed insurgents on Onderon to justify going ahead with this scheme, but there should be karmic blowback on the Jedi/Republic/Empire for this at some point.

 

Apart from the last episode of the arc which was epic, the rest of the arc dragged. IMO Onderon should have been a 3 part arc instead of 4.

 

Agreed. That 2nd part was too much about puppy-dog eyes, batting eye-lashes, and incompetent droids. I suppose that episode introduced the new King, but that's not enough to justify an entire episode.

 

Yea, it certainley sounded that way back in May when he and Dave Filioni was interviewd. He said something about it being a bit of a strugle to make Maul sympathetic, but he managed to make it work. That certainley makes it sound like he is writing it.

 

Ooh, I did not know that. That should be good.

 

Agreement x 3... minus the epic tag.

Three parter: less puppies, fewer stupid clankers and better pacing.

 

I never saw much complexity in Saw at all. Saw was like a generic anime shonen character in his personality. He was always cocky, abrasive, and brooding from the moment we first met him trying way to hard to be a badass. Come on TCW look at Fives, that's the right way to do it. Saw did get a little over the top once he got the rocket launcher. Steela's death was the hardest of lessons. Lux's interactions with Saw were pretty interesting but they pretty much went away by the end of the 2nd or 3rd episode to Saw just doing his gung-ho thing. It seemed like the rebel's show of force worked since by the end of the 2nd episode the populations of Iziz was ready to go to war behind the rebels and that finally boiled over during the execution scene in the third episode. It was general Tandin's defection and Dendup who finally motivated everyone to jump on the stage and mob the battle droids but we already knew they this was going to happen. The rebels never worked to get the populous of Onderon behind them. That was sorely lacking.

My single biggest issue with this arc is how it seemed to try to retcon HOBS without actually explaining the retcon. I've gone in circles trying to explain and understand how Mina Bonteri fits into this. Ya know, I don't recall seeing any comments on this from you yet. What do you think about this Q? Dendup calling both the Republic and the C.I.S. puss pockets of corruption and saying he was determind not to join either side and then getting forced should have been an awesome moment. Instead I said "What?" because its completely contradictory to Mina Bonteri's backing of the C.I.S. and admiration of Dooku. I've come to except the idea she would of either been involved with whatever group who toss Dendup out. Either that or was a two timing you know what playing both sides. I'll just write Lux off as a dumbass and Dendup off as being to nice when saying "Your mother would have been pround."

Yup and comically Ahsoka and Rex still have not interacted really interacted since "Weapons Factory" despite being on screen at the same time several times. They still haven't spoken any lines to each other since then since. That's insane.

I'm not sure what that star is supposed to be. Did the quote system screw up again? =b

With the material presently in the arc it should have been maybe 3 parts. I like the four part arcs and with just a little more material and complexity it could have stood alongside the Rako Hardeen arc as how 4 part arcs should be done right down to how perfectly "Crisis on Naboo" brings the plot lines in the prior three episodes together and really deepens them. I wish I could say "Front Runners" saved the arc for me. I have no soft spot for this arc. Only Ahsoka benefited from this arc. I didn't feel like it did anything for Lux except to potentially give him a write out. I don't know if I'll ever see my Lux/Rex conflict because it seems Lux has fulfilled his role in Ahsoka's character arc so it may be the last we see of him other than as an extra model walking around in the Senate building.

Ya know I'm waiting for a chance to see the republic do something truly evil like back real terrorists or hold an innocent world hostage or get involved when there is no need. Lets see a world really get caught between the two super powers and get bulldozed because of it. And use the space guillotine.

 

Saw was very likeable, however, particularly when the other three were locked into love triangle shenanigans. The lack of complexity could have been rectified had some of this thread's proposed changes been sent back in time to the TCW writing team of 2010 or so.

I like the fanon theory that Rash is initially a reasonably competent and liked leader who happens to be pro-CIS and whom Mina Bonteri would have had no qualms supporting. As a result, Mina has no problem with usurping Dendip because she strongly believes in the CIS and the goals of the Separatist movement. Just because she isn't a militarist or corporatist creep and just because she is on good terms with Padme doesn't mean she wouldn't support a bit of realpolitik.

Fanonical Rash at some point turns into the desperate, out-of-his-depth king we see in the show and loses popular support. Perhaps because Mina's death at the hands of CIS forces is publicised on Onderon (Thanks to Lux? A Friend In Need could point towards this) and some Onderonians start supporting neutrality or a reversion to Republic membership. Perhaps the CIS enacts some heavy-handed legislation that vexes the Onderonians. Lux is still finding his way so he doesn't deal with issues on Onderon, but after the Death Watch debacle he is contacted by Steela to help the anti-CIS insurgency.

This would have been great to actually see referenced in the show. So much more could have been done with the homeworld of Mina Bonteri.

I'm more interested in Lux/Rex than Ahsoka/Rex, TBH. Perhaps such a conflict could have been resolved in this arc and Lux takes the plunge into Loyalism as a result of its developments, shedding his maverick neutrality. Either that or Lux decides to go his own way once Onderon rejoins the Republic, out of disgust that his planet is aligning itself with "monsters" like Rex.

Or perhaps Onderon doesn't join the Republic after all and gets crushed by the iron fist of the clone...



I don't think the problem is Chris Collins (veteran of The Wire) so much as Lucas, Filoni or someone else stepping in to make this arc all about a black-and-white good-Loyalists-versus-evil-Separatists conflict and all about Ahsoka, or giving Collins a restrictive brief to work from. The Ahsoka focus is good (surprisingly so in this arc), but there was a lot of filler and padding that could have given way for some extra story threads, potentially including Rex's. I hope they realise that Heroes On Both Sides was the exception to the S3 politically-focused episodes because it got a generally good reaction. An arc dealing with Mina Bonteri's homeworld should have called back to that episode's nuances (eg. conflict between corporatist/militarist Separatists and the idealists).

Clone special forces operative (Fives? Rex/501st?) working alongside brutal terrorists... sounds like fun, in a character development sort of way. Get Michnovetz on the case.

The thing about innocent worlds being held hostage or being ground into rubble and gore between the droids and clones is good fodder for something magnificently political and action-packed. In TPM, the Trade Federation is said to control many planets and their interest in Naboo is (in Darth Plagueis) said to be related to the plasma mining operations. Perhaps show something similar to the Naboo Crisis of TPM, only more brutal and even more exploitative since the CIS-aligned Trade Federation elements (led by Nute Gunray) have a true galactic superpower behind them and a government that is completely bought and that's never going to impose sanctions on them. The Republic, naturally, swoops in to "save the day" in an invasion fully endorsed by the Naboo Senator and the Naboo-born Chancellor, because they still see Separatist Space as their jurisdiction. However, it turns out that some species on the planet actually want the CIS to remain in control. Both the Republic and CIS are deeply committed to retaining control over the planet and its vital resources so they each pit the different species against one another in a race war, turning into full-blown genocide. The more populous Republic-backed species gains the upper hand and forces the Separatist-backed minority off the planet. There's the dastardly evil Republic we've been waiting for, totally in-character as a faction, moving Palpatine closer to his ROTS autocracy and Padme towards her ROTS disillusionment.

Shades of Cold War geopolitics here, with the Republic in the role of the USSR/PRC/etc. and the CIS in the role of the USA/UK/etc. "Evil is everywhere!" as the ROTS opening crawl says. Actually, that could be the episode title, the evil twin of HOBS.

 

I definitely liked Saw over Steela. Steela shouldn't have so blatantly orbited around being competition for Ahsoka.

Oh that's good. I hadn't really place "A Friend in Need" into the larger arc yet. Mina backed whoever tossed out Dendup and maybe it was the peace conference or whatever that hell that was on Mandalore where Lux crashed the party where the general public found out about the culprit of Mina's death. This would be where the occupation began and Onderon needed to treat a Rash. I would point out that when "Death Watch" is mention in "A War on To Front" Steela and Saw are both taken back by it (Which in itself is interesting). I've been skeptical of Lux having picked up any skills from that adventure. I think true to form Lux sought out and joined the rebellion on Onderon on his own, again getting in over his head. A son can't help but love his mother no matter where she fit in, in Onderon's politics right? Lux probably felt it was something he belong with one way or the other. That one "Your mother would be proud." Line from Dendup still just throws me off. He must just be super nice or forgiving.

I'm more interested in Rex/Lux as well, just marveling at how odd it is Rex and Ahsoka never even say a word to each other. Am I really supposed to believe these characters will ever have anything to do with each others fates? Maybe it was Dendup who made the actual decision to join the Republic and Lux is going along with it. I imagine this is another in over his head moment for Lux or that's how it'll play out for him in the Republic Senate. LOL, I know that's probably an Imperial storm trooper reference but I'm having a vision of Lux being invited to a bar by some old politicians and getting into a bar fight with some on leave Clones. Poor Lux. I wish I didn't have to point back to TCW's kiddy show origins because I feel them again after this arc. I guess they figure we got enough of Rex last season or something. I thought the filler was mostly in the first episode's training stuff. The rest of it was just black and white, love triangle fluff and maybe a shallow attempt at some brother and sister fluff.

Fives and Rex with brutal terrorists? Bring it. I think Boil could be good in an arc like that as well. Lets fine out how Rex would feel about having to annihilate an entire planet for the republics version of a join us or die agenda. There has to be a planet out there with that kind of value as a military target that makes everyone neutral soul on it canon fodder for both sides. Lets sanction a planet and instead of bringing it food just starve it to death in contrast with Ryloth. Genocide and biological terror. I swear I am not a sadist. <<;