Saga Anakin should not have been redeemed

Let's see, Vader stood by and let Alderaan get destroyed, tortured her on the Death Star, chased her over the galaxy, and froze her love interest in carbonite. I think she was in shock after that but I don't see her forgiving Anakin that quickly like Luke did.

 

Uh, well, it doesn’t say that at all, actually. The dialogue, as I just quoted, even makes the point that her death cannot be explained, which is a hell of a lot more direct in its meaning than: girl sad in one scene, dies in another. One cause other. Beep beep boop.

"Lost the will to live," is a familiar turn of phrase that was used in the movie simply because it is a familiar turn of phrase. That’s all.

 

Oh so "that's all". Lets just agree to disagree.

 

So how do you reconcile with everything else that happens in these movies as a result of the mystical? How is it you’re even watching these movies, and, assumingly, a fan?

 

@ anakinfansince1983
Broken heart symptom is a real medical condition, if you prefer an easier to swallow explanation (I can fully emphasize with that by the way).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takotsubo_cardiomyopathy

 

The death scene is a reflection of the previous Ruminations scene. Husband and wife had a symbiotic relationship; as such, they both died on their respective operating tables.

 

I can understand that.

Symbiotic relationship is just another term for what I already said: Couln't bear to live without man and therefore died. It's more akin to unhealthy obsession and co-dependency than real love. Obviously concepts that Lucas doesn't understand.

I mean, the same guy also droned on through his mouthpiece characters on how attachments are bad.

 

What? Where did that come from? I’m merely asking you an honest question based on your own assertion that a mystical explanation within the storied content is inadequate to your standards. Mystical stuff -- the Force -- is, like, 85% of Star Wars. So, again, how do you make those ends meet?

 

But Star Wars can be rather heavy-handed. And that's fine with me.

When I watch a fantasy film, I want to be overwhelmed. I want to see knights falling to their knees, cursing their gods, villains in the throes of mad dances and virgin maidens singing to choirs of angels through tears of blood. It's like catnip to someone like me.

Revenge of the Sith put the "opera" in space opera, and I love it dearly.

 

So you ignore every element in these movies that involves Jedis and the Force, since they clearly constitute mystical premises. Or, do you not do this? I really don't mean to hammer you here. I’m just confused by the contradictions.

 

Yeah, it's not like bad things could ever come about as a result of attachments.

 

Tarkin didn't seem very attached to anyone.

Also you confuse attachment with obsession. Anakin was obsessed and insane. Blaming all what happens on attachments is nonsense when he had obvious anger issues and other stuff going on.

Normal people have lots of attachments and don't usually get violently crazy.

 

A symbiotic relationship rooted in honesty and altruism would be liberating; one rooted in obfuscation (e.g., the Tusken massacre) and deception (the clandestine marriage), would be doomed. Anakin and Padme's happened to be the latter.

 

Ha ha he ho ho. Ha.

Watch ROTS again. If it makes you feel better, attachment also saves the day in ROTJ. Better now?

 

As human beings we are programmed to need friendship and love from other human beings, we automatically form attachments. Declaring attachments bad is foolish because without attachments we get severe mental health problems. If GL thinks attachments are bad on principle he is a fool.

Symbiosis is in no way altruistic to begin with. It is basically a natural trade arrangement from which both sides profit. Using this word in any other way is just pandering to human sentimental notions.

In ROTS at least Anakin doesn't love Padmé. It is not love if you use someone selfishly for your own emotional needs, lie to that person and betray everything that person believes in to fulfill your own selfish desires. It's what they call dehumanizing someone.

 

This was never explicitly mentioned in the movie and is kind of out there but what if, in his post-Mustafar rage while being surgically operated on, Anakin was able to somehow tap into Plagueis' knowledge of the Force for a brief moment without realizing it? He and Padme were quite obviously spiritually linked via the Force (he was able to sense well in advance her inevitable death) and he was determined from the very beginning to play god and interfere with her predicted death. Rather than prolonging Padme's life from afar with this uncontrollable power, however, he instead stripped her life from her as he himself was spiritually dying and dragging himself deeper and deeper into his own personal hell.

"It seems, in your anger, you killed her." - Palpatine

Similarly, when we saw Jedi Anakin go berserk and slaughter Tusken Raiders in Attack of the Clones, Qui-Gon Jinn was able to manifest himself ever so slightly via the Force.

 

That’s cool. Though, I’d say the idea of the Force is more than just having special powers. It’s thematically integral to much of the story, what characters are doing and why. However you work that out from one story element to the next, more power to you. For the record, I’m about as non-spiritual as one can get. I subscribe to nothing mystical in real life. Zero. It’s just, in these movies I view it all as an alternate means of expressing or exaggerating themes about morality, philosophy and human nature. Or simply as fantasy for fantasy’s sake.

 

I don't recall any of the following people declaring "attachments are bad on principle": me, Lucas, or the Jedi. I said bad things can happen because of attachments. We saw this demonstrated in ROTS. Hence the prohibition against them by the OJO. Something does not have to be bad on principle to be considered dangerous for certain types of people, and Buddhist philosophy isn't foolish just because Westerners and Anakin don't agree with it.

 

When Anakin comes to Yoda, Yoda doesn't tell him "Get a hold of yourself and tell me who is in danger so we can help that person". No, he tells him to let go immediately. Yoda also tells him that attachments lead to greed. Also Jedi are not allowed to marry and all of the OJO demonstrate a cold, unhealthy and aloof behavior. GL also has said in interviews that if Anakin let go of his attachments (which is basically impossible for normal humans, like I explained) he wouldn't have fallen to the dark. The message is clear and it is rotten.

Real life buddhism is much more complex. Comparing it to Star Wars is instant fail.

Also GL has made Anakin Space Jesus which reminds more of Christianity than Buddhism. Catholic priests are celibate, Jedi are celibate.

 

I actually agree with the OP. When he slaughtered children, that's when I first had to ask if this was a person who is even worthy of being redeemed.

Anakin went from being a fallen good-guy (what we were told in the OT and ham-fistedly sold on in the PT) to being a mass murderer. Why exactly is this someone who is worthy of redemption?