Amph Waiting For Superman: Gunnverse DCU/Elseworlds

No, I'm not asking for the same, Ben Kingsley is ok. But don't make him a total joke and replace the antagonist with someone who only showed up for 2 pages, it is stupid. Did they let Ledger just show up without using any makeup or use the makeup to let him look like the Joker? Or did they let Tom Hardy show up as Bane without put a mask on him?

 

Speaking of Superman, they still kept his costume with minor change to fit the style rather use Tim Burton's Superman costume.

 

What does Mandarin have to do with DC comic films?

 

They say Man Of Steel 2 will involve Superman exploring other parts of the world. I think he should go to the Amazon so we can meet Wonder Woman. We don't need reboots of Batman and Green Lantern cause we've already had movies of both of them recently so the general public knows who they are (doesn't matter if they will be different incarnations). They could tie in the Arrow show with the movie universe.

So that's already 5 characters we don't need to worry about introducing before the Justice League movie outside of Man Of Steel 2. Then you can introduce Flash and Martian Man-Hunter in the Justice League film itself and if either of the two characters gets popular from the film give them spin-offs afterwards.

and **** Aquaman.

 

Protip: trying to argue "YOU SHOULD NEVER CHANGE THE CHARACTER RADICALLY!" with movies that weren't actually made is a rather poor debating tactic.

EDIT: And even with Man of Steel's pretty harmless changes to the suit angry fanboys were out there shouting "YOU CHANGED SUPERMAN'S OUTFIT AAAAAH RUINED FOREVAAAAAAHHHH".

 

Tell me why didn't they use Burton's design? Or let's look at the 1974 WW pilot.



It wasn't accepted well and the role of the TV series was given to Lynda Carter later.

Did you see me yell about it? No.

Ben Kingsley doesn't look like Chinese, he's English/Indian descent, but it's still acceptable to the majority until Killian was revealed to be the antagonist. There was hints of the Mandarin ever since the first one, when the Ten Ring was introduced so it became a even bigger disappointment.

 

Who. gives. a. damn. about. Marvel. movies. when. it's. a. DC. thread?

Seriously.

 

(1) They didn't use Tim Burton's design because, ooh, gosh, I dunno, Tim Burton didn't wind up making a Superman movie.

(2) You want to talk Wonder Woman pilots? Okay, riddle me this, Poke, compare your 1974 WW pilot and this Wonder Woman pilot:



--and tell me which one was more successful given adherence to the comic book appearance of the character seems to be your sole criterion of success?

(3) The filmmakers in theory have no obligation whatsoever to conform to the comic book version of a character down to the last detail, or not even to the first detail if they feel it doesn't work cinematically. Comic books and film are entirely different media. This is partially why flatheads can't understand why Watchmen works as a comic book and not as a set of storyboards for a live action film: because one allows you to suspend disbelief much more easily than the other.

 

1) WB did hire Tim Burton to direct SR, that costume was made when he was doing it but due to he used his own gothic style too much, they fired him.

2) Neither of them are successful, but the 1974 one got everything wrong, and the 2011 one only got the costume, maybe the cast right.

3) They do, it's not like if must fit the comic 100%, but at least resemble the character good enough both the outfit and and personality. Otherwise why bother to pay money to buy the license rather than make their original character? Even Nolan or Burton, who focus on their own style rather than the comic, didn't change the iconic characters' outfit too much.

 

(1) Yup. And then hired Bryan Singer instead to channel Richard Donner. What a wonderful decision that turned out to be, hey?

(2) You seem to be shifting ground a lot on this one. Is it just the costume or not? Because up until this moment you seemed to be throwing costumes left, right and centre as your justification for a superhero movie being good or bad.

(3) I'm only pointing out fanboys' tolerance for change needs to be a lot higher than it presently is. The success of the Nolan films -- if not Frank Miller -- is pretty persuasive proof you can mess heavily with a character's "accepted" origins, style, and costuming and still come out with a good story that people want to watch/read. Slavish adherence to fanboy demands and refusing to let the character grow is just dumb and guarantees the character goes stale -- a prime reason, I'd say, for failure after failure in the Wonder Woman area.

EDIT: This goes double for superhero standards that carry unfortunate implications with them in the present day. The Mandarin's origin was to give Iron Man a Chinese nonspecific "Oriental" opponent to fight while the Vietnam War was still going on and thus make Iron Man look like more of a patriot. It was a jingoistic move not uncommon in comics during the Cold War. Don't know if you heard the news, but the Cold War's pretty much over, as is the Vietnam War. The Mandarin certainly needed an update, and IM 3's way of doing it was sure as hell a lot less offensive than his origins previously were.

 

1) No, but clearly better than Tim Burton, do you think people will watch a Burton style Superman with that outfit? At least SR made 400M but Burton's...meh. Even his Batman didn't make more money than SR.

2) No it's not the only one, but why change them when it's not necessary? And Mandarin's problem is not just the costume.

3) Nolan still kept basic elements of the characters, did he make the Joker a calm black guy? Or did he make Bane a weak guy on wheelchair? Because why bother to use them if you don't like any elements of them?

Killian
has different name than the Mandarin
different race
different power
different origin story
different personality
different relationship with Tony
Their goal might be similar but it applies to most of the villain.


Aren't you people accusing me for pick white actor for a gargoyle who was voiced by a black guy? Then why are you defending such change?

And the Mandarin is not working for the Chinese government in modern comics, they let the Wolverine fight Japanese ninjas in the upcoming film, why can't Iron Man fight a Chinese villain? We have a lot of white villains, does that mean all white people are evil or is it an insult to them? NO.

 

(1) Accessing alternate timelines again, are we? No Tim Burton film; no way to tell whether people would have watched a Burton style Superman, so cut that crap out. You can't even tell whether that suit would have made it into the final movie with Burton at the helm. I already said to you arguing against changes in characters with films that weren't made is a dumb debating tactic. And I wouldn't downplay the Batman '89 series, either: it basically gave DC superheroes their lives back on film after Superman IV shot it between the eyes.

(2) Ah, but the question there is what is "necessary". As in, what will sell to today's moviegoing crowd, not the one that watched movies in 1978 -- as Superman Returns demonstrates.

(3) I don't see any problem with dealing with the Mandarin as they did. It was a reversal of expectations, which if it works in a film is completely fine. And in IM 3 it works.

(4) There's a difference between fighting medieval if not entirely mythical warrior archetypes and fighting unfortunate racial stereotypes. You can probably figure out for yourself which one the Mandarin generally falls into.

 

1)He was even fired by WB before he was able to shot the film and quite a few crew members dislike his approach, and he was fired partly because he refused to change the gothic style, that include the costume. Do you seriously believe a Tim Burton style Superman movie would work? Really?

2) For very iconic characters like Superman, Batman, Joker or Bane, yes the costume is very important, minor changes are ok but no big revamp, even Burton and Nolan followed it. For less known ones, at least make them recognizable .

3) No, I once wrote a very long paragraph to tell how stupid it is, and why didn't Nolan totally change the Joker? Or, would the Gargoyle story become **** if they cast a white actor as Elisa?

4) They are not medieval, they are modern criminal organizations with ninja skills, just like the Mandarin is good at martial arts does not mean he's ancient.

 

Why can Wonder Woman fly in the justice league cartoon?

 

Post-Crisis WW can fly until recent time they changed it again.

 

Please stop feeding the trolls. Seriously. How many of you are dying inside every time he posts? I can't be alone.

 

I'm sorry, Ender. Nervous habit.

 

Yup, thread's gone Full Hodor already. It's truly hopeless now.

 

Curses to Christopher Nolan for not using the same costume that the original batman tv series used!

 

Erm. Nolan did totally change the Joker.

 

He looks like he si about to rape poor Robin.

 

Every time that Slowinthehead posts, Wonder Woman bashes a kitten to death with the help of the Mandarin and leaves it on Kate Beckinsale's lawn.

STOP KILLING KITTENS

 

This is factually incorrect. Tim Burton chose to leave the Superman Lives project because it languished in developmental hell for several years. He was never fired from the project; Warners put the production on hold in April 1998, and Burton left to do Sleepy Hollow. See here and here for independent corroboration (the second link has references to published material).

 

The pictured suit (follow the arrow to see Slowpoke's post) was evidently the second, so-called "Resurrection suit" to be worn by Cage's Superman after being killed and brought back to life. You can see Cage in the original, true-to-the-red-and-blue suit here, among many other places round the web. So again, no, you have your facts wrong.

 

Yeah, I got the wrong info, but a Tim Burton Superman(with Nicolas Cage as Superman) would not work.