Lit Bane, Plagueis, Sidious, and the Rule of Two

I just finished the Bane Trilogy for the 2nd time. Now I'm re-reading Darth Plagueis, thought it'd be the next logical choice. I'm through the Prologue where Sidious kills Plagueis, and I couldn't help but think Bane would have disapproved over Sidious' actions.


"The title of Dark Lord must be wrested from the Master in a confrontation that pushed them both to the edge of their abilities. Thus would the Sith line always flow from the strongest, the one most worthy. "

That's not even close to what Sidious did. He got the aging Plagueis drunk, waited until he passed out, then killed him in his sleep. This is basically the same strategy, that Bane considered, flew in the face of the most fundamental tenet of the Rule of Two, and caused him to seek Darth Andeddu's holocron and a way of extending his life. He saw Zannah as complacent to toil in his shadow until he was aged and deteriorated. Then she could dispatch him with virtually no risk. What risk did Sidious take by waiting until Plagueis was passed out drunk?

Also, Sidious probably waited too long to challenge (if you can call it a challenge) Plagueis, as Plagueis was aging and not at his peak. It was a cowardly way to kill him. I can only think Bane would have been disgusted by the whole scene.

 

Palpatine flat out says that he's instituting the "Rule of One."

He doesn't intend to train a replacement.

He intends to only train lackeys.

Plagueis, likewise, is totally against the Rule of Two and thinks it's stupid.

Edit:

Seriously, though, Darth Bane's system is one of rather questionable veracity. It also inclines Sith Lords to go against what is a fundamental principle of their order. They're meant to be thinkers and wielders of subterfuge but Darth Bane's rule is based around the idea of attacking them head on. Palpatine killing Plagueis in his sleep or getting him drunk is pretty much the ideal way for a Sith to strike: hurting an enemy at their weakest. Bane, himself, didn't prove his superiority over Kaan through martial combat but did so by tricking him into using the Thought Bomb.

Of course, the Rule of Two does better by forcing Sith Lords to try and prevent themselves from falling to this thing. Darth Bane was MISTAKEN in thinking that Zannah was wrong for waiting until he was weaker. That forced Darth Bane to seek eternal life and her to make her move sooner. In short, it encouraged the Master to push HIMSELF and Zannah to push HERSELF. The Rule of Two worked fine.

It was Bane resting his laurels that was the problem.

 

The EU presents Palpatine not as a Sith, but rather as an individual exploiting their teachings.

 

Which is what a Sith would do.

 

Yes, attack head-on - says the guy wearing the armour of invincible orbalisks!

 

"Might makes right is a short-sighted philosophy swiftly abandoned when you meet someone stronger."

True Words, Master Poof.

There's kind of a hilarious undercurrent to the Sith Inquisitor storyline's second and third acts where you are set against Darth Thanaton. Darth Thanaton is a slavish (pun intended) devotee to the Sith traditions, rules, and codes. He ardently pursues Lady Zash for murdering a fellow Sith Lord through her apprentice because it's technically illegal.

The Sith on the Council find this really strange behavior.

It gets problematic when you start smashing through his forces one after the other and more or less become promoted again and again due to your superior strength to his apprentices. In short, exposing his entire pursuit of you as bullying someone he thought was weak but turns out to have been strong.

It's why his death is so pathetic because you not only kill him, you destroy him completely. His beliefs, philosophy, and ideals burn like so much kindling by the end. The fact you're a former slave like him (a fact which might be why he's so desperate to be a Traditionalist) just is the icing on the cake.

 

Actually I thought Sidious nailed Plagueis at just the perfect time. Any sooner and he wouldn't have enjoyed the full benefits of Plagueis' financial and political backing - that's what got Sidious elected Supreme Chancellor and paved the way for the Clone Wars.
If he waited longer however Plagueis would have fully mastered his midichlorian manipulation, and judging by the book and his Book of Sith entry, the old Muun would have achieved nigh-omnipotence...

 

He didn't say not to be at peak condition.

"Sith is an idea" has repeatedly proven to be a misconception.

 

"Sith is an idea" is defined like history defines a lot of terminology.

For me, Sith is a religion. A sort of Dark Side Judea-Christianity.

The Sith are a people (Israelites) who get conquered by Dark Jedi (Persians)
There's a synthesis of their beliefs
The Sith get scattered by the Roman Empire/Galactic Republic
There's a split between their views as Non-Sith convert to the Sith religion with Exar Kun being Pope of Rome and Darth Viviate being Dark Side Eastern Orthodox Patriarch
Darth Ruin is Dark Side John Calvin
Darth Bane is Dark Side Joseph Smith

They're all Sith dude. Just very very different kinds.of Sith.

Palpatine doesn't have to follow the Rule of Two because he's the Dark Lord. He MAKES the rules.

 

If you allow yourself to get drunk and pass out, you don't deserve to be a Sith Master.
There's no point in a Sith's life when you can just stop getting better and call the apprentice coward for waiting. You allow your apprentice to kill you when you are weak, well why did you get weak?

 

Palpatine says just that when he kills Plagueis.

 

The Sith did survive for 1000 years because of Bane, I think he did something right lol

 

I never liked that IMO. It kinda undermines ROTS.

 

Eh, they survived in hiding. So it's not that big of an accomplishment. Palpatine and Plagueis also more or less took over the galaxy themselves.

I agree. Palpatine was more interesting when he was okay with the idea Vader might someday murder him and take his place.

 

How? ROTS didn't give me the impression that Palpatine ever intended to be replaced.

 

Uhh, no they didn't take over the galaxy mostle by themselves. Palpatine and Plagueis were only in the position they were in due to generations of Sith working to put them their. Plagueis drops hints of this many times in his novel noting the triumps and failings of previous members of the Order. Bane's Rule of Two had a few flaws, but worked better than any other Sith system did.

Palpatine did go against the Rule of Two with his actions, but then so did Plagueis when he killed his own Master. This is one aspect of Bane's Rule that wasn't followed to the letter, and it probably weakened the Order as a whole in the long run. Because of Palpatine's actions for example, the art of Midichlorian Manipulation was lost.

darklordoftech Even when Sidious is dueling Yoda and outright says Vader will surpass him?

 

No matter how powerful Vader gets, Sidious could outsmart him.

 

Whether or not there'd be such an opportunity with a Fully Powered Darth Vader gunning for him is up for debate. In the end, coming down to a duel, Palpatine's aware he'd lose and seems fine with that.

 

Palpatine lost the Mace Windu duel and that worked out perfectly fine for him.

 

I meant why would Palps recruit Anakin to such a degree just so he can be his henchman?

 

Palpatine more or less trashes Plagueis' statement to that affect as well, saying it was all his doing. The efforts of Darth Bane's folk beforehand did little versus Palpatine's own massive planning and scheming.

He basically says that aside from training him, the previous Order did little and he has a point.

ROTS: The Game says that Anakin could take him down.

 

So that Anakin will defeat Palpatine's enemies.

 

Because Anakin jumped in to save him, as Vader would many times down the years. What's more, whether or not he was actually down for the count at that point is also debatable. Take what happened on the 2nd Death Star where he got chucked down a shaft, and replace it with an unarmored Vader chucking him down a shaft, while absorbing his Force Lightning and redirecting it back at him.

 

Revenge of the Sith Palpatine is okay with Vader killing him if he grows more powerful because that's the Sith way.

Of course, Palpatine doesn't intend for that to happen if he can prevent it.

He's not sabotaging Anakin, it's just the natural "race" between Master and Apprentice. A Master teaches his apprentice to replace him but also works to achieve more power so his apprentice DOESN'T.