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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit The Official StarWars.com Blog Thread - That's right, I went there

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I do think it is important to remember whatever Western Europe was going through, the rest of the world was getting along fine - and since Rome was integrated into the world system, much of its knowledge was stored elsewhere.


    Yeah, but the dark ages is only a term applicable to Western Europe in the first place. I'm going to object to you on the second part though -- a lot of what the Romans "knew" was never written down, it was the sort of stuff you passed on as a skill while other recorded material was lost. Just because the rest of the world was still going on doesn't mean that there wasn't a loss either. Take glass, since that's the example we're starting with. The Roman skill with glass cutting was unparalleled until modern times -- it was only until Renaissance Venice that artisans began to resemble Roman glass cutters in skill, and even that was different because what was lost has still yet to be returned. China, though, had absolutely no use for glass -- they preferred working with real stones, so they never developed such skills as a civilization. So while China was perfectly fine after the fall of the Roman Empire (affected only insofar as it lost customers for silk, which were replaced by the Muslim states anyway), the fact that it went on doesn't mean there wasn't a lost.


    Not to mention that while there technologies that were lost, there were also plenty of areas where Dark Age and Middle Age Europeans were more advanced than Rome.


    Yeah, they were more successful at sucking. :p
     
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  2. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Technically, but I have noticed that in shared universes, the first purposed solution is usually treated as absolute fact by later sources, even if it was total conjecture.

    Especially when it comes to attributing something to some ancient race or not.

    Yet you get people who insist that without the Dark Ages, we would all be living in space by now. And in general the periodization of history can be very Eurocentric at times, especially in casual conversation.

    Very true. I spoke too broadly.

    Well, Europe isn't my field, so I can't argue the point.


    Though it does remind me - Jello, how do you feel about the "Byzantium is Rome" idea that I hear a lot now.
     
  3. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Proposal: General Kurumenga is the Imperial general who became the human member of the Triad as of the time of the Corellian crisis, thus explaining how that group first figured out Centerpoint's true nature.
     
  4. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Torn. I mean, it's factually true -- the Eastern Empire is the continuation of the Roman state, and the folks did call themselves Romans up until the end (and indeed, the Arabs called 'em Romans too -- still do, in the modern day). The only objection I could possibly have is that they were Greek and Christian in culture and religious disposition, keeping only Roman political ideas -- and even then, kept them half-heartedly since the whole republican tradition of Roma was lost (that's one of the big reasons why the later emperors preferred Ravenna, Mediolanum, Constantinopolis, Augusta Treverorum, Nicomedia, Sirmium, etc as seats for their courts because they disliked the Senate and they disliked the traditional freedom of speech to the Eternal City's populace). But ultimately, that doesn't change the fact that it was still the Eastern Roman Empire.

    Historians these days like to say that the Roman Empire never fell, it only changed... that's true for the Eastern Empire, at least until 1204, 1453, or 1461 depending on your point of view (and even then, politically: Byzantine culture continued under Ottoman rule for quite some time).

    I will, however, maintain that Justinian is a doofus and people should stop liking him. It was HIS fault that true Roman culture died out, because the Ostrogoths were actually fairly nice about it -- the Roman population of Italia greatly outnumbered them, and Romans were better at everything anyway so they just let the Romans continue running things like they always did, only with a barbarian king on top instead of a Roman emperor. That all changed when the fire nati--errr, I mean, Justinian, attacked.
     
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  5. Eyrezer

    Eyrezer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2002
    Just a preliminary comment, but big ups to Rich and Abel on their latest collaboration. An enjoyable part one. I especially enjoyed the references to multiple obscure species: Qiraash and Dandelion Warriors, with an additional 3 species identified! The Sullustan cousin-species was a nice connection. Also nice to keep the Greenback homeworld kept within the Marvel comics realm.
     
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  6. JMM

    JMM Author: The Forgotten War, SW Fact File star 3 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1998
    So, based on what Jason says, all of this is scientific speculation, so it could all be incorrect. :) Very curious to see what else was cut from the book!

    And let's not forget the Wheel article says "Part 1"!
     
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  7. King of Alsakan

    King of Alsakan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2007

    Very true, there was certainly was a period of chaos and disorder after the Western Empire fell. However, the length and backwardness of the so called "Dark Ages" has thankfully been greatly reduced due to more accurate historical records and by discrediting some of the more biased accounts from certain historians of earlier eras. In terms of progressing science and other human achievements, in my opinion I think of the Romans as the most backward, they always had the tinniest sections in my history of science/engineering books.

    In terms of the Rakata, I agree, I think they wouldn't hold up against the Republic/Empire unless they had some crazy force based tech. I don't know what it is about them, I just really wish they hadn't made there way in SW canon, or at the very least becomeso important to human history.
     
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  8. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Very true, there was certainly was a period of chaos and disorder after the Western Empire fell. However, the length and backwardness of the so called "Dark Ages" has thankfully been greatly reduced due to more accurate historical records and by discrediting some of the more biased accounts from certain historians of earlier eras. In terms of progressing science and other human achievements, in my opinion I think of the Romans as the most backward, they always had the tinniest sections in my history of science/engineering books.


    Biased accounts? What, "I hate the past, argh!" What's been changed is that people no longer view the dark ages as a period of stagnation and suffering, as there were definitely steps forward but it was still completely disastrous.

    And uh, Romans backwards in science and engineering? I don't even know what to say to that, dude. Look at the Pantheon -- the world's largest unreinforced concrete dome to this day. We can't replicate it. We don't have the ability to do with concrete what they did, nor can we duplicate the composition. The Romans perfected the arch and the vault. Roman roads were the sturdiest until the modern era. The skill necessary to create Trajan's Forum was not remastered until the industrial period -- etc. The Romans weren't the only amazing ones: the Greeks (including Hellenistic natural philosophers), Egyptians, Phoenecians, Assyrians etc all dramatically advanced the world they lived in. The Romans were the best engineers of antiquity, though, that's sort of... a thing.
     
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  9. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    About the Rakata, they strike me as, "We want the Sith to be responsible for exploring and uniting the galaxy, but it's already been established that the Jedi and Republic existed before the Sith, so we created a Sith expy."
     
  10. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
  11. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Is that going to tell me that Merlin wasn't real, because I don't think I could handle that.
     
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  12. King of Alsakan

    King of Alsakan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2007
    I agree there was a Dark Age, and bad things happened, but the original representations of it from earlier eras was quite over-exaggerated. In my opinion, it may have not started off great, but it was a huge step in the right direction once Rome fell to get us where we are today.

    All of those civilizations did do great things to progress science and engineering. Still I feel the Romans were the most lacking of the bunch by a long shot, especially compared to the Greeks. In my mind they just took from the civilizations around them and they were great builders. Just not as impressive as the other to me at least.

    I some ways I think they share a lot of common with the Rakata in terms of their views on slavery, brutality, and in a way that they didn't really pursue science to an extent.
     
  13. HedecGa

    HedecGa Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2006
  14. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Wait, did they just give Gallandro a first name? :eek:
     
  15. JMM

    JMM Author: The Forgotten War, SW Fact File star 3 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1998
    Sure looks like it.
     
  16. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    the bit about Jango being a star of violent anti-hero serials amused me.
     
  17. Cynical_Ben

    Cynical_Ben Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Likewise. I hope someone makes one of those in cartoon or comic form at some point; it'd be the Star Wars equivalent of a Frank Miller story, or one of the Death Wish movies.

    I'm sure someone (or multiple someones) will be upset with Cad Bane being present, but even in the context of TCW alone, he's earned it. It takes a skilled gunman to hold his own against a Jedi with nothing but a blaster pistol. I wonder whether that last sentence about him is hinting about his eventual fate...

    It's a nice article, though, I like the sections on Han and Gallandro especially. The note that Han's first instinct upon seeing Vader on Cloud City was three rounds rapid to the chest (or hand) was nice. And Gallandro now has a first name!
     
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  18. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Well, we have Luke Skywalker and the Dragons of Tatooine, Han Solo and the Pirates of Kessel, and the rest of these cheesy holofilm names. Why not Jango Fett and the Death Watch Pirates? I can see someone goofing up history like that. :p
     
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  19. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Vocal minority aside, the fight over TCW's canonicity or relevance to the EU isn't just a war that's been lost. It's a MASSACRE. 3 million viewers averaged an episode is about 30 times as much as "Invincible" sold. Girls are going as Ahsoka and people are writing articles about the cartoon in major newspapers. Even more so, large numbers of young Star Wars fans and people who want to read more about Star Wars think of it as "their" Star Wars. So much so it'll probably be incorporated into the New EU.

    I liken it to those people who sneered at Marvel comics ever being referenced.
     
  20. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
    the official blog is not allowed to add new canon content specifically as per their own words to many fans who asked. only Jason, Abel and their articles may do so. I do wonder why Ed again cheated retcons and new info in there... and I wonder if it will stick since specifically blog entries are forbidden to add new lore except if done by hired authors like Jason Fry or Abel Pena&Rich Handely, etc.

    weird..
     
  21. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Stop giving one named characters a second name, damn it.

    You wouldn't give a first name to Cher, Prince or Sting, would you?

    Stupid, just stupid. Everyone has to try to make their mark.
     
  22. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Leave Susan Cher out of this.
     
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  23. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2009

    Interestingly, I think I remember that being mentioned in Shatterpoint. Mace is crestfallen to discover that the kids he rescued admire Jango Fett more than they do the Jedi.
     
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  24. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    Here's hoping that TOTJ and TOR are revealed to be holodramas.
     
  25. DelRiego

    DelRiego Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2002

    TCW fits a lot in that category, with a rabid portion of ....scholars continuously debating its historical authenticity and how the composite character they creators added to relate to the audience never worked out.