Lit Just how strong was Grievous exactly?

This is one of the things that in my opinion, are among the more muddled of the expanded universe. In his initial introduction in the micro-series and other initial literature, General Grievous was described as an extremely powerful military commander and warrior, that can handle roughly five or more Jedi single handedly as seen in his first micro-series battle. As the expanded universe developed, Grievous gradually appeared weaker and weaker to the point of ridicule, as he flees from most fights, loses to Padawans, and resorts to pathetic tactics in duels like using a gun or calling reinforcements to gang up on his opponent. It was also insinuated during the Revenge of the Sith era that should Grievous had escaped Obi Wan, Darth Vader would effortlessly kill him.

 

27.8555555. Repeating of course.

 

Serious Answer

Grevious could handle five or six normal Jedi simultaneously but not Obi Wan, Anakin, Mace, Palpatine, or Yoda. He was also vulnerable to blaster fire.

Dooku had a cartoon which explained that Grevious needed to intimidate the Jedi first as well as choose his battles well, so he appeared invincible. When Obi Wan stood up to Grevious, he broke a lot of the mystery that Grevious cultivated and one of his chief advantages. So, in short, Grevious could handle most Jedi very easily but the Jedi Council were almost a match for him. This is why Kit Fisto wasn't able to defeat Grevious but was able to fight him. Kidi Adi Mundi, due to Grevious use of tricks during their fight, was completely overwhelmed.

The important thing to remember is Grevious is a cyborg as well as a master swordsman. He's unnaturally fast, strong, and possessed of multiple limbs he can use simultaneously in order to overcome most Jedi's fighting skill. Dooku also taught him how to use Makashi in a way every bit as deadly as Ventress. However, Grevious does NOT have the Force. This limits his level of danger but does not dissapate it.

 

Out-of-universe answer: It depends entirely on who's writing him.

 

Sigh. This gives me nostalgic flashbacks to when I caught the Clone Wars microseries as a kid, and when I saw Grievous throwing around half a dozen Jedi, including one Council member, like they were nothing, my first thought was of how skilled Obi-Wan must be to take this guy all by himself.

My silly childhood self just didn't realize that Obi-Wan was actually only the 10th or so guy to thump Grievous, and he did it after three or four practice rounds.

 

Obi Wan couldn't defeat Grevious in one-on-one lightsaber battle, which is why he had to revert to a blaster. But, at the end of the day, it's all about whose left standing. As for Grevious losing in lightsaber battles, Dooku taught him to flee when things were going against him. It worked out very well and it's implied he killed something like 200 Jedi.

So, whatever the case, Grevious proved himself worthy of being the most terrifying creature in the galaxy until Vader.

 

Not to turn this thread into a cage match thread, but the way I viewed it, both in the movie and the novel, Obi-Wan had him completely outclassed when it came to a direct battle, hence him being twice disarmed and having to retreat. Once Obi-Wan lost his lightsaber in the chase, well, a hand-to-hand fight between a human and a giant scary cyborg that can bend steel is a bit lopsided (and Obi-Wan still won that).

I don't hate TCW, but I feel that's a victory that has been highly diminished because of it. You could argue the same with Dooku and Anakin, but ridiculous as that is, I'm slightly more forgiving towards it because I kind of like the implication that Sidious is gauging his future students progress, and that it's only Anakin who constantly duels Dooku.

 

Anakin defeating Dooku is about his rising to become Darth Vader. If he didn't completely outclass him at the end, that would be a mistake. As for Grevious' losses in TCW, I don't think they're egregious as people think. He was never captured, killed, or even seriously impeded. All that the heroes managed to do was not die in their battles with him--which means they were all ties.

 

Oh no, I completely agree that Anakin should kill Dooku in the end. I'm just saying I think it's somewhat ridiculous- though it doesn't bother me nearly as much as it does other people- that he fights him six times total, (and that's just from the episodes that I've seen), plus one ambiguously canon fight in TCW tie-in comic.

As for Grievous, I feel it's a similar problem: although Grievous being all together ineffectual is certainly annoying, I think it's just annoying that Obi-Wan fights Grievous at least three times before they fight for the last time. It's just something that stretches my suspension of disbelief to its near-breaking point.

 

I do admit some amusement that George Lucas put his foot down that Anakin ONLY meets Grevious in ROTS.

 

Pretty much nothing tops the micro-series for its depiction of Grievous, but I feel that way about the series and the Clone Wars as well.

The HNN article introducing him was pretty bad-ass as well.

I think he appeared once or twice in the CWAS, didn't he?

 

Truer words were never spoken

 

One useful method of comparison in a case like this is to compare RPG stats. The SAGA rpg provides statistics for General Grievous and a number of other luminaries. Grievious is CL 14, which is the same level as Obi-Wan (circa episode III), but Grievous has enhancements to several physical traits because he's a cyborg. Anakin is also CL 14 in this timeframe (though his stats are phenomenal). Other Jedi council members are in roughly the same range: Plo Koon at CL 15, Ki-Adi-Mund at CL 13, and Saesee Tiin at 16.

Mace Windu is at CL 19, Count Dooku is CL 18. Yoda and Palpatine are both max at CL 20 of course.

Effectively then, we're looking at a situation where Grievous is a match for a Jedi High Council member one-on-one, which is probably fair, though he's actually not the most dangerous non-Force-using Separatist (CL 16 Durge holds that throne).

 

While the 3D series overplayed his defeats, mostly in season 1, the other series introduced him as such a villain sue that it was jarring. So here we have a new character who can take for breakfast several others we know are strong, at the SAME time. Imho, that´s very weak storytelling. Worf Barrage trope doesn´t work when it´s taken to such extremes, it just makes the new character look like the writer´s pet.

 

Joke character.

 

Hey, excluding Jar Jar gungans were quite able.

 

Jar Jar has force-sensitivity. He's got Zayne's power.

 

And even that was bent, as Anakin and Grievous are, at one point, literally two feet from each other, but Anakin is unconscious and doesn't get a chance to see how tall Grievous is, so it's cool.

 

Grevious was probably equal to a Mando. And both of those could be Force-whacked into a wall by any Jedi with a brain, if they stopped playing sabre dueling games.

 

In most appearances at least, the Force isn't very effective against Grievous, as he's able to make his feet magnetic and weld himself to the floor (to the point where not even Mace is able to push him off a moving train until he cuts away the floor and causes Grievous to lose his balance). In addition, while most Jedi we meet can lift heavy objects, Grivous himself is probably much too heavy to actually move for most Jedi.

So yeah, I buy Grievous as an effective Jedi killer. Or, I did at one point.

 

Size matters not. In theory if you can lift a pebble, you can lift a cruiser.

 

Also, Skill DOES matter as no matter how strong a Jedi is in the Force, a sufficiently talented warrior can kill them.

Muggle or not.

 

Interesting you should mention Grievous couldn't stand up to Yoda. That's precisely what happens in an AU I read.

 

Actually Obi-Wan seemed to be very easily defeating Grievous in a lightsaber battle. The clones interrupted before Obi-Wan could finish him.

 

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