ST Who's The Baddie?

Palpatine wasn't featured in E:IV...


Oh my goodness, did I just defend the idea of Plagueis in the ST?
I have to go take a shower.....

 

Not necessarily Pevra. Hiding in the shadows, background. I do believe he'll be the big bad, but I'm not convinced he'll be revealed in EPVII.

 

Not necessarily. They could hint at a 'puppet master' during E7, but DP doesn't need to appear until E8 or even E9.

 

Why do you think Palpatine is the main villain?

Man behind the man isn't always the main villain.

 

So you want the villain of episode VII not even being the main villain? It would mean you would have to up the threat level in 8, meaning the threat level in 7 leaves something to be desired.

Why not go with an open villain instead?

 

I think you misunderstand Darth_Pevra
I believe fishtailsam was drawing a parallel between the big bad of the OT as we knew it, and the big bad of the ST as we will know it

Well, we all know the Plagueis got rid of the (crappy) "Rule of 2"....
I believe there will be 3 or 4 Sith in the EPVII, a couple may die, but the survivors will report back to their leader. Something like that anyway

 

Well, I was talking about the main villain. I assume that they won't go to the lengths they would have to go if Plagueis is only a side character.

I don't think they will go to the lengths they have to go if Plagueis is a side character only.

 

Darth_Pevra - What lengths?

Would you agree that the big bad of the OT was The Emperor?
He was only mentioned in ANH, and only in one scene in TESB. If you take that format and apply it to the Saga as a whole, we can have a very similar structure;
PT : mentioned
OT: absent (can be explained that he anonymously financed the Rebellion )
ST: in the background to start, becoming more prevalent through the films

That being said, I'm not trying to convince you and respect your stance

 

He was the "big bad", but he was not the main villain. Consider the end of TESB. Would it have been possible to complete the story without Vader?

No

Would it have been possible to complete it without the Emperor?

Yes

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHeavy

Stupid to use a character who requires so much exposition and risk when you can use a Palpatine ghost.

 

What lengths?

Explaining what he did 70 years, explaining why we never saw him, explaining why he is still alive. Etc.

 

But if you look at the other trilogies, the main antagonist didn't play a significant part until the 2nd or 3rd movie (ignoring the fact that we all knew that Palpatine was the main villain, but story wise it wasn't revealed until E3). I think it'd be good if you didn't see them until the 3rd part of ST.

Just my personal opinion

 

Darth_Pevra
I don't know how he would need "so much exposition".
I don't understand what you mean when you talk about "the lengths they'll have to go".
If we're diffentiating between the big bad and the main villain, I will say now the main villain of EPVII will be a small group of Sith, the big bad will be their leader to be revealed later. Similar to the structure of Vader and The Emperor.

I know we disagree on this, and it's all good

EDIT: Just seen your post about the "lengths". That can all be sorted in less than 2 minutes of film in each of the movies in the trilogy.

 

Palps ghost requires two lines of exposition.

If you explain Plagueis in two minutes it will be very hard to accept him. Even with a proper introduction some will hate his guts, those who dislike resurrections in general.

Read the link I just posted. Palpatine wasn't needed to finish the OT story. PT changed things a bit though.

Now this is a very weird and incoherent saga in which the main villain suddenly disappears and Vader takes over.

 

I think this comes down to a difference of interpretation. I took your reference to 'main villain' as being the orchestrator, the man behind the schemes, rather than the one with the most screen time.

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

I would say probably not, but there is no way to know.

Plagueis requires two lines of exposition as well.

I still don't see how one can argue that Plagueis can't come back because he's dead, but Palpatine can.

 

No, main villain is for me the one who drives the plot the most, the actually most important villain, not the one with the catchy but far less important title of "Big Bad".

 

Most people don't care about The Emperor. Everyone knows Darth Vader, though. I'd say that general audiences remember Darth Maul pretty well too. The Emperor is a creepy old guy in a dark robe, while Darth Vader has the iconic voice, breathing, and scary looking helmet. Darth Maul has the crazy face and the double bladed lightsaber. The ST is going to have at least one 'iconic' villain that will sell toys and everyone will love.

 

The emperor is pretty relevant in today's pop culture what with the pope Benedict jokes.

 

Again we're talking about interpretation and opinions, and I'll accept yours even if I disagree. However, I personally wouldn't undersell or underestimate the importance of a character who has masterminded a scheme to cause wanton destruction or plans to take over the Galaxy. I certainly wouldn't place this person under the puppets they control.

 

I know what you mean... I think it's quite possible to have a central antagonist (Vader) whilst also having a 'main villain' or 'big bad' (Emperor). I would expect that if Plageuis or Palpatine return as the 'big bad', we'll also have either a single central antagonist or a series of central antagonists. In terms of exposition/setup, I see Plageuis requiring a similar amount as the Emperor in the OT i.e. minimal (even Sauron and Voldemort only needed a 3 minute flashback).

 

Voldemort had tons of setup, as had Sauron.

But neither was a very interesting villain to me.

His "lackey" is more important for the plot of the OT. This is actually pretty typical. The black knight taking a more important role than the evil king who is only seen in the end of the story.

Whether or not someone is the main villain has less to do with in-universe power and position and more about the position and role in a story.

And that is why I dislike the term "Big Bad". It is fairly misleading.

 

I would only add that it might be very interesting, creatively, to find out what Plagueis was doing in the intervening years. I would also praise the idea of another poster, who happened to be new, who suggested his body were frozen in carbonite, or other similar fashion. That said, if Plagueis finally makes the real deal appearance, after Palpatine introduced him to us, it could be much more interesting: what if he were able to manipulate the midi-chlorians to regenerate his own organic material (his body)? Cellular regeneration and immortality might go hand in hand.

 

Need a new villain in a mask - similar Vader... maybe Luke will be the "bad guy" in the new episodes.
I asked - many children love to Vader.
Dart Plageuis ... something in this story there - looking back at the age Lucas

 

IF they use Darth Plagueis, I doubt they'd go along perfectly with everything that's in the EU about him. Abrams and Kasdan have free reign to dispose of any elements of the EU that they want to in favor of the story that they want to tell.

 

Perhaps get rid of the Muun design?