ST Who's The Baddie?

Ok, here's a crackpot idea, totally out of left field. What if Lando is a padawan who survived Order 66 and/or Anakin's attack on the Temple and after Palps and Vader's death starts ruminating on his old life and decides to pick up his old lightsaber and somewhere along the way decides to go over to the dark side for something other then winning the odd game of Sabbac?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

Darth Lando, the suavest Sith Lord in the galaxy.

 

I would personally prefer Plagueis to Palpatine. But it is still way easier to use the latter as long as he's only a ghost.You don't have to explain motives and so on.

You could just jump right in.

And if he is only meant to be a side character, this is probably what they'll do.

You must have missed all the expository dialogue then. I hope we get less of that in Star Wars.

Dra---

Maybe I can't imagine it working well? I can imagine a ton of Plagueis possibilities that would result in a mediocre villain.

I mean I already mentioned that I find his bankier side most interesting. But aside from me nobody else seems to care for that and I am sure the filmmakers won't either.

 

No I didn't. Simply referencing a character isn't really the same as exposition is it? If so - please can you quote the explanation in Harry Potter and TPS as to how Voldemort was able to survive (because I thought that only came up 5 films later)? Same applies for Sauron - please provide quotes.

 

Personally, I hope they avoid sith ghosts in the films. I'm sure they exist in the EU, but speaking in terms of just the films, I always felt that the ability to return from beyond was something exclusive to the Jedi. Especially considering Obi-Wan's jab at Vader, that if struck down, he would become more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine. To me, it was akin to dark side users losing their soul.

That being said, I hope they keep ghosts (light or dark) to a minimum. I really don't want to see Anakin, Obi-Wan, or Yoda coming back in ghost form to teach Jedi, or to explain something that happened in the past. Let the characters fill in the holes on their own. I wouldn't mind if either Palpatine or Plagueis show up somehow as the enemy, but if we see Anakin's ghost explaining to Luke how Palpatine told him the story of Plagueis, that would really put me off. The story needs to stand on its own merits, and the characters need to discover things on their own. If, say, Anakin or Obi-Wan appears in a moment of despair to lead Luke somewhere, sure, that's fine. But they shouldn't be used as a crutch for the plot.

 

Hey, I'm down for being friendly. I actually didn't realize my tone was unfriendly, but just straightforward (or even sleepy).

However, I have noticed these sorts of responses on the board, and I don't find them very friendly but annoying. It's cool with me if someone doesn't like something. I like it when people make legitimate arguments against things, or just say "I don't like this kind of plot/character." What annoys me is when people say "I can't imagine how that could work" as though it's some kind of strong argument, when it's simply an admission of not being able to do something. I'm not even a huge Plagueis or Palp supporter, but the people who like him give lots of detailed, believable scenarios on how they might come back. I'd like to assume everyone has a wonderful imagination, but when people give these kinds of responses, I'm not sure what to think.

Anyway, exposition can be entertaining when people know how to write it well. One traditional way we could learn about how Plagueis or Palp returned could be from them bragging to our heroes, or to someone else.

Luke: "The Emperor destroyed you before the Clone Wars."
Darth Plagueis: Laughs. "My apprentice's arrogance made him powerful -- and easy to control. To deceive him was to deceive the Republic while I obtained my true goal: the time to perfect certain...experiments." Darth Plagueis gestures his hand over a wound on his arm that Luke inflicted. The flesh heals, as though by magic.
Luke: "You're immortal, but the Jedi will learn how to destroy you."
Darth Plagueis: "Perhaps. But it will be too late for you." Darth Plagueis gestures towards Luke, and his face begins to erupt with boils and cancerous growths. Plagueis laughs.

Or like in ESB, when we see Vader without his mask for the first time, we see Plagueis sitting in some kind of chamber hooked up to various tech as he talks to an underling. We don't need a single line about his immortality; we see that he's achieved some sort of unnatural scientific life.

 

Exactly - the best bit of exposition in the entire saga, to date, (IMHO) is a fairly simple circa 5 minute conversation in ANH:-


BEN
For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of
peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times,
before the Empire.
LUKE
How did my father die?
BEN
A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he
turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi
Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all
but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.
LUKE
The Force?
BEN
Well, the Force is what gives the Jedi his power. It's an energy
field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us.
It binds the galaxy together.


With that brief conversation we get an insight into the Republic, the Clone Wars, the destruction of the Jedi/Republic, Darth Vader and the force... At it's best, exposition can be used to paint visual pictures and open up a galaxy of ideas and notions... Sometimes, it can be argued, talking about it works better than showing it...

 

That's a great example. What's fun about that exposition is it feels like we're being told a story while we're learning about a world. Whenever I hear that scene, I feel like I'm sitting by a campfire.

 

Those things do not always work. There's one more example; Anakin was a good friend. When I first knew him your father was already a great pilot but I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong. From one little sentence, the first one, some people wrote an essays of how exactly that friendship was the thing most missed in the PT. And, of course, the third person who killed Luke's father, but let's leave that out.
But I'd love to see Plagueis' explanation to the audience of how Anakin did not fulfill his destiny and how the Force remained unbalanced as the Sith were never destroyed.

 

I don't think it's the dialogue, or exposition which is the problem per se... as you allude to, it's how our expectations match what's depicted visually (certainly when something is being 'retrofitted'). That's always a complication/constraint of showing something which was previously just spoken about... The imagination is often the best place for visuals... that's why the radio dramas were so powerful too.

 

Plagueis supporters

Do you want the ST to be true to the character as presented in the novel, that is have him portrayed as a Muun? Are you ok with Ep7 having a CG character as a main villain? He will need to be either CG or a guy with alot of prosthetics & an animatronic mask like the Nemoidians. Given this technical "limitation" will he be as effective a character on screen as you've pictured in your minds?

Grievous was ok but I'm not sure I want any more CG characters in main roles.

 

Depends on the quality of the prosthetics or CGI.

Out of the two, I'd prefer prosthetics, but the animatronics would need to be improved when compared to the Nemoidians. If done right (and there are instances where animatronics and prosthetics have been done well), then it shouldn't detract from the performance at all.

 

I'd prefer them to go with prosthetics, a small amount of animatronics, finished off with CG.

 

Not only name-dropped but all the pertinent facts are there:

1- Was a Sith Master
2- Supposedly held the secret to immortality
3- Was killed by his apprentice

Also throw in the fact that it is implied that Sidious was his apprentice, at least that's what I gathered the first time I saw ROTS. Yes, the general audience will have forgotten Plagueis but it won't take much to re-establish him and then expound.

The idea of the Force creating his material form has been used and would feel redundant the way ROTJ had a second Death Star. But the pros are that there is a precedent and that his form could be anything the Force wanted (IE any race.)

Sidious coming back as a Sith Spectre is a Hell of a better idea than as a clone.

 

Good question.

A Muun. I would prefer the character in mask and costume, as well.

 

A good expositionary tool would be a Sith holocron of Sidious, I think it would be great if we would visit a Sith world in the ST be it Korriban or some other planet or even Vader's castle. A Sith holocron could explain about Plagueis's experiments and would be IMO a better tool than a Sith spirit.

Regarding the Plagueis, I would go with a CG enhanced actor as I said before in this thread (probably some hundred pages earlier ) like they did with Vodemort or the mouth of Sauron. If he features a breathing apparatus, they should use the Vader design, as a hint to where Sidious got his inspiration for Vader.

 

I would prefer make-up effects to CGI.

 

Yeah, me too, but due to the extreme thinness of Muuns, I guess they would have to digitally slim down the actor (who wears make-up/prosthetics).

On a side note:
I would love to have more of the classic prosthetic alien species in the ST. While there were certainly also a lot of them in the PT, I would still love some Talz, Ithorian, Nikto, Klatoonians, Chadra-Fan, Devaronian and Gamorrean showing up.Ohh an please Bothans...

 

Mo-cap could also work too.

 

I think if they were to bring back Plageuis it would be a given that he would be in a human body... as a result of transfer of essence or whatever.

 

That seems pretty boring.

 

I wouldn't like him to be in a human body, at least not from the beginning. I could see a scenario where he exists in a withered Muun's body and then possesses a young Jedi though... If Plagueis took over the Imperial Remnant it would be great if he would transform it from a racistic human dominated one into a multi species one. I would love to see Sith of all different kind of species. (in walks a young muscled Sith of Yoda's species all covered in red and black tatoos)