ST Too much use of the Force?

How can you have too much use of the force?? I would expect Luke to be portrayed as the most powerful Jedi that ever lived (he brought down the empire). If they don't show him using the force to fold a burrito, I will be extremely dismayed.

 

Ric Oliie-it's impossible, in a fantasy world, to believe a Jedi/Sith can use a lightsaber to deflect blaster bolts using the force, yet baseball players consistantly hit a baseball going 95-100mph in the span of 60feet 6inches. Baseball players must be Gods then. The force wasn't even in ANH? Hmmm, let's see:
Jedi mind trick is used, Luke deflects blaster bolts his first day at school, Obi feels the people cry out in terror, Vader chokes Motti, Vader senses Obi on the Falcon/Death Star, Obi uses force to distract troops on tractor beam, Obi disappears, Obi then speaks to Luke, Vader SAYS the Force is strong with this one, Luke uses the force to blow up the death star, but the force wasn't even in ANH. Just an assinine statement.

 

Jedi have precog abilities anyway sensing big events can be tricky but blaster bolt detection has never been shown to be all that difficult. I mean seriously this aint Star Trek its more Space Opera or Space Fantasy then Science Fiction. I think we can all agree we hate Midicholorians.

 

One of the most blatantly untrue, nonsensical and revisionist statements I've ever heard. This person is contorting Star Wars to be something it's not for their own tastes. Of course The Force is real in ANH.

How the hell did Obi-Wan feel the death of billions on Alderan? How did Vader sense Kenobi's presence on the Death Star? Did he simply make an incredibly lucky guess? Wasn't that a Jedi mind trick that Kenobi used on the stormtrooper, or was the guy just unfathomably stupid? How did Luke destroy the Death Star without his targeting computer?

I don't even know what else to say.

 

Ah no they're not! It goes:

Jedi Youngling
Jedi Padawan:
Jedi Knight
Jedi Master

 

There's the "Jedi Knight" rank but loosely speaking members of the order are all knights. Obi-Wan is referred to as a Jedi Knight in the opening crawl of TPM despite the fact that his official rank is Padawan at that point.

No.

 

I think you’re right... SW shouldn’t exclusively be about Jedi just as much as it shouldn’t exclusively be about bounty hunters and rebels etc. However, I think Lucas had a story to tell... the macro being the fall of the Republic/Jedi and the micro being the fall of Anakin Skywalker. So clearly much of the focus was going to centre on these institutions and their dealings.

Also - I remember many conversations (pre TPM) on boards such as this debating how Lucas could realistically show the mythical Jedi being subjugated to the point that, by the time of the OT, the galaxy had largely forgotten about them and the force. We speculated about how such warriors could be defeated.... And to be fair to Lucas, by the end of the PT, I think Lucas had depicted (in a largely believable way) how/why the Sith managed to topple the Republic/Jedi order to the point that the force/Jedi were gone by the events of ANH. I think that is due, in part, to the necessity of depicting these institutions as “stodgy, bureaucratic, inflexible” etc.

I agree that the PT needed more fun (specifically TPM)... but the bottom line is that the PT’s story is pretty dark, dour and tragic. The corner that Lucas had painted himself into was having Episodes 1, 2 and 3 be chronologically positioned as they are (they always had to be about the fall of Anakin/the Jedi/the Republic) and then trying to imbue such a story with ‘fun’ elements, that can only be construed as ‘tokenism’ in hindsight. It’s like trying to inject comic relief into a film about the rise of Nationalism in Germany in the 1930’s.

 

I only like chocolate in moderation. When I stuff it into my face hole every day I get sick of it.

 

I want to see a movie about just the new republic senate as they discuss trade routes. No jedi powers involved. It would be like c-span but in space! How awesome would that be.

 

wow... all I can say... just 'wow'

 

Star Wars: Episode VII: Mister Skywalker Goes to Coruscant

 

I'm trying to think of parallel situations that could highlight my disagreement with the premise of their being "too much use of the force" in Star Wars. Here are some attempts:

- Too much emphasis on the mafia in The Godfather series
- Too much use of magic in the Harry Potter films (this one's a stretch, I know)
- Too much reliance on superpowers in the Marvel films

My point: each of these movies are not actually about the mafia, magic, or superpowers and yet without those elements, the aforementioned movies would be almost unrecognizable. These movies are actually about relationships, family, power, self-actualization, temptation, choices, etc. - those particular distinctive components are used to create the environment and provide narrative momentum for the stories to be told. Star Wars is no different.

In my opinion, four things make the Star Wars saga distinctive:

1. The effects
2. The settings
3. The intentional mythological construct and the symbolism related to that throughout the saga
4. The mystical component, i.e. the force

 

Forget the Force, Sith and Jedi. Episode VII should be about Han Solo and his Wookie army against Adolf Hitler and his army of Zombie Ninja Assassins.

 

I'd like to put "The characters" at number 1 instead. It was always the relations between the characters that made Star Wars significantly amazing. Luke the young farmboy teaming up with the rogue smuggler Han Solo, Han trying to win Leias heart, Luke discovering the truth behind his father, Leia and Luke discovering they are siblings, C-3PO constantly making fun of R2.... It's all about the characters to me.

 

This.

 

The Star Wars OT is like a fridge containing all different kinds of ice cream.

The flavours being

spaceships and spaceship battles
cool scoundrels
force mysticism
alien worlds
military sf

etc.

The force (aka magic) was a very important element, but it was only a part of what made Star Wars so great, so important to so many people.

 

Additionally, compare the relations between the characters in OT to the PT, or even the movie Avatar.

So in PT, you have... hmmm... Obi-Wan and Anakin's forced friendship, Anakin and Padmé's forced love story, Anakin's unexplained rage against his mentor and the Jedi council... However the cat and dog play between Palpatine and Anakin is actually pretty good.

In Avatar you have.... Jake Sully and Neytiri's cliché love story. Besides that, nothing.

 

Don't forget politics!

 

That's good with me...I was (in my head) lumping the characters in with the mythological construct, seeing as all of the major characters mostly conform to established mythological types (the hero, the sage, the scoundrel, the "sidekick", the damsel in distress - though with a twist in Star Wars, the paternal antagonist, the devil figure, etc.).

The reason that the characters in the OT are so memorable is that Lucas plucked at deeply embedded narrative "strings" in the audience. We recognized these characters, even with subtle (or not so subtle) changes and occasional subversion - Leia as the damsel NOT in distress, for example. This is, for me, the weakest aspect of the PT. I can't really tell if was the writing, the directing, or the acting - or all three. Had Lucas given writing/directing duties over to other gifted folks, the PT would have been much stronger, in my opinion. Maul, for example, was a potentially great mythologically resonant character tapping into images and fears related to malevolent demons. And, to be clear, I consider myself a fan of the PT - there is much to love there. And having other folks writing and directing (while still having Lucas' involvement) makes me very optimistic...

 

I think the irony is that the characters of the OT, specifically in what I think is the best SW film (ANH) are quite thinly drawn and simplistic (obviously devloped over successive films - particularly Luke)... whereas the characters in the PT are much more complex, but in many ways underdeveloped. Which goes to show that complex charcaters don't nesersarily make for the most likeable and relatable ones. I think the ST will go for more straight forward, and dare I say it, more cliche character types - but I don't say that as a criticism because I think audiences need to relate to the new characters quite quickly.

 

Yeah, I think these criticisms about the Force and Jedi really are more of a critique of the kind of characters we saw in the PT. If the critics liked the characters better, then they would have like the Jedi and Force better.

 

Luke was a Padawan in the OT, even if he wasn't called that. The children in AOTC and ROTS were in the beginning stages of their training. With bolts set for a mild stun. As to predicting everything, the Jedi and Sith cannot. They can only see and sense what is around them. When the numbers game is too much for them, they can be overwhelmed. This is how the Jedi were eliminated as they were. Why Qui-gon responded to Anakin's assertion that no one can kill a Jedi when he knew first hand that it can and has happened.

To be fair, we have to remember that the stories are meant to be different. Luke was growing up in a universe with only two Jedi Knights and two Sith Lords. He had no knowledge and understanding of what came before. Just what was in the history texts and what some people who were there recalled. The characters in the OT were built up around the fact that the Jedi were all but extinct. In the PT, we're seeing a different era. One where the Jedi were everywhere and from the point of view of Anakin, who joins the Jedi Order in the twilight of its existence. We're seeing how and why he fell from grace and as such most of the focus is going to be on the Jedi Order with the political arena as a secondary focus with Padme and Bail. What's going to be coming next will be based on what comes following the victory at Endor and the status quo therein.

 

Do Star Wars films include too much of The Force? Do Harry Potter films include too much magic? Do the Spider-Man films include too many webs?

 

Wizards are a greater percentage of the cast in Harry Potter than Jedi are in Star Wars.

 

If you're counting one film or one film trilogy.