ST TIE Fighters in the ST

Never seen one outside of a museum - but they do look pretty good.

Anyway - any thoughts on what the "next-generation TIE fighter" would be like if we see one?

Defender-ish?

Phantom-ish?

Something radically different?

 

I went to Daytona International Speedway a few years back for a NASCAR race (Pepsi 400 in July). There is a Military air strip just a mile or so away from the speedway, and when I was there for all of the events over 3 days, we saw all different types of aircraft taking off and landing... everything from B-1B Lancers, to F-22 Raptors, F-15's , F-16's, Loads of different Cargo varieties etc... but that was also the first time I saw an A-10 in flight. Not just one of them, but a whole squadron. In pictures they look rather awkward as it is... very angular, but when you actually see that airframe in flight it's really impressive! Those massive engines are VERY loud too!

Me, being a huge fan of Military aircraft, I was every bit as intent watching which planes were taking flight as I was watching NASCAR Practice and qualifying, and the Lemans race etc... the NASCAR races were after nightfall, so there was no aircraft watching... which is fine, since I was watching the race!

I am still surprised though that I got to see a B-1B Lancer! Those are not a common sight at ANY Military airport! Watched it take off, it went out and flew around for about 45mins or so, then came back and buzzed the Speedway a few times before landing again.

 

I've seen military aircraft on the ground at Duxford Museum - but not often at air shows - saw one airshow a decade or so ago, which had the Avon Vulcan.

 

I've actually never been to an airshow...

 

I wasn't actually at the airshow per se - but right outside it - still plenty of room to see stuff - though it was mostly a display team (not the British Red Arrows one - I think another one - third colour was green) - and that Vulcan.

 

I am hoping for something in the direction of the Chiss Clawcraft...





It seems like a natural progression from the TIE Interceptor...

 

Perhaps. I'd expect it to be a bit more angular though - perhaps like a Phantom with 4 pylons instead of 3 and a ball cockpit instead of a Falcon-style cockpit.

 

I'm hoping they start to evolve away from solar panels that all TIE's currently have... we saw that the company didn't always utilize solar panels on the direct evolving line that led to TIE's, so it would seem they can evolve themselves back out of it, but still utilize some type of pylon as the Clawcraft is shown to have. Maybe they don't need to be all curved etc, but it's a nice unique look.

Maybe just take the Clawcraft and flatten the curves to straight edges while still maintaining the basic frame/look in a more angular and sharp fashion.

 

Maybe those aren't solar panels - but heat dissipators?

Would explain why TIEs perform just fine when nowhere near a sun.

It might also explain why some ships have those panels on the inside - like the Inquisitor's TIE.

 

They are Solar arrays that power the twin ION engines... supposedly according to wookieepedia...

 

Sure. But that might end up being changed (though I doubt it).


Of course, I might be inadvertently getting that heat-dissipator idea off Saxton:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/tie.html

Wings & power
TIE-series starships have enormously powerful reactors for their size, as demonstrated by the fighters' potent firepower and dynamic handling in dogfights. Since reactor power is disproportionately great for the size of the craft, the removal and dissipation of waste heat becomes a problem of fundamental importance. TIE engine design makes this particularly problematic, because the outlet nozzles are narrow. Thermal energy from inside the engine is only able to exit through an effective aperture of less than a hundredth of a square metre per engine.
The solution is to add two or more heat panels to the sides of the ship, and to pump the reactors' waste heat into radiator wings. An effective radiator requires a large surface area, but making the wings too extensive would interfere with the pilot's view. The wing configuration of each TIE design, with a given total reactor power, is a compromise between these opposing considerations. Darker surfaces make more effective radiators, hence the predominant charcoal-black tone. For a given wing shape, the effective surface area can be increased by introducing a fine grille texture or some other pattern of lumps or ridges. Even if we ignore the contribution of corrugation, radiators held at only a few hundred degrees (much less than the several thousand degrees of the incandescent engine interiors) may increase the effectiveness of heat removal by thousands of times.
The more powerful the craft, the greater the total wing area should be, assuming that radiator technology remains constant and that the same panel texture is always used. This is the case for designs newer than Lord Vader's TIE. Ships such as the TIE Avenger, Defender and Scimitar appear to follow the wing-area/power rule-of-thumb. However there seems to be a distinction between the flat-wing and bent-wing designs. The flat-winged TIE fighters tend to have greater wing areas for their power; much greater than an Interceptor or Vader's long-range craft. Bent-wing configurations may give a fundamentally better radiator quality, perhaps through some kind of improved heat circulation. Alternatively, there may be no technological advantage, and the high-power small-wing designs may be expected to suffer more obscure technical drawbacks. They may be more fragile or difficult to maintain.
Since most TIEs are intended for the rigours of space combat, there are some tactical design constraints. To help reduce the chances of being hit, a fighter should be shaped to minimise the area visible to an enemy. The most dangerous situation in a dogfight is when the TIE is directly in front of its foe: this happens either when the TIE is being chased, or in a head-to-head attack. With the two ships moving and accelerating in parallel or antiparallel directions, the enemy pilot has maximum time to aim and shoot. Encounters are much briefer when the fighters are at oblique or acute angles to each other. Thus the wings of most TIEs are built so that they face sideways, and they appear only as thin lines when seen from the front, back, above or below.
The bent-wing designs redistribute some of the side surface area to diagonal facings further towards the top and bottom. This makes the craft a smaller target from the side but a larger target from above or below. This may be an advantage if side attacks are more common than vertical attacks, but it's unclear whether or not this should be so. Also, it isn't obvious whether this possible tactical advantage would be the primary reason for bent wings, or merely an incidental benefit.
Apart from the wings, the TIE design is very compact and reduces exposure. Most of the machinery is packed within a cockpit ball and the pylons which support the wings. If the large radiators weren't needed, it is likely that the entire ship would be made spherical.
The compact and enclosed engine design minimises vulnerability to enemy fire. Because the thruster nozzles are no more than a hand-span wide and the drive mechanisms are hidden within the main hull, a TIE would rarely suffer the kind of engine hits which rebel fighters often receive on their stripped-down, oversized and exposed hot-rod sublight drives.
Except on larger TIE craft, the power reactor(s) are usually mounted within the cockpit ball. The exact location is uncertain, but the possibilities are limited since the ball is mostly hollow, and has large windows on several faces. There are two ringlike structures running around the cockpit ball: one above and one below the pilot's level. It has been speculated that these are toroidal fusion reactors. Alternatively, the reactor(s) might be directly beneath the pilot seat, between the engines. Considering the small amount of space available, the reactors of Imperial starfighters must be marvelously compact devices, or else must occupy much of the craft's volume.

Secondary wing functions:
Some sources suggest or assume that the wings of TIE craft are solar power collectors. Unfortunately, this cannot be one of the wings' significant functions. Sunshine and starshine are not sufficient to power the propulsion, weapons or any other major mechanism of any craft which is as potent and dynamic as a TIE-series starship. If the fighter is operating in space near a habitable planet, the sunlight will provide no more than about a kilowatt per square metre. The common TIE has an array area of just over a hundred square metres. At this rate, it would take at least several weeks to accrue enough energy to enter or escape the gravity-well of a planet. The energy requirements for hyperspace jumps, made by the non-combat TIEs and the most advanced fighter models, are much more extreme.
A solar-powered TIE would be at a great disadvantage if it was deployed in the outer reaches of a system or in deep space. At most, any solar power collected through the radiators is supplementary to the onboard reactors. Perhaps it is enough to augment the power to cockpit instrumentation and other peripheral processes. At most, solar power could be used for ignition when the fusion reactors are cold-started. They might barely provide enough power to charge up a small, low-temperature electrode fusion device, which might in turn help to initiate the main reactors. (Of course, this would not be the primary justification and function of the wings, but it might account for the popular perception.)
Various commentators have suggested other secondary functions for the wings. Most of these alternatives are concerned with propulsion:

• It has been speculated that the wings serve as electromagnetic devices to further manipulate the engines' ion streams. This theory suggests that the wing area should be concentrated around the stern. However, most TIE wing shapes are balanced in the fore-aft direction, or else are extended forwards rather than backwards.
• Another idea is that the wings are gravitic devices which are somehow used to rotate the craft. However this would violate conservation of momentum and angular momentum; if the fighter can spontaneously start turning, it must be exchanging momentum and angular momentum with something else, be it the ion-stream exhaust or its deflector shields. Most TIEs lack shields, and the exhaust is already well manipulated by the thrust nozzles.
• Another idea is that the dark areas are exhaust grills for waste gases, but it is hard to see why such a large area would be needed for this kind of process. The true functions of the TIE wings must be area-dependent.
• It has been suggested that the wing spokes may fire propellant to assist manoeuvring, but they appear to be structural, show no sign of nozzles at their tips, and this theory can't explain why the intermediate dark areas would be needed anyway.

As part of the radiator function, the spokes probably serve as conduits for some kind of coolant. Hot coolant will be moved from the reactors and engines, through the wing pylons, along the spokes, through the radiator panels, and back through different spokes to the pylons and the ships' core systems again. We need not know the precise physical and chemical nature of this coolant, only that there is a coolant of some kind. If TIE wings do play a role in manoeuvring the craft, it is probably via some method of temporary braking acting on the circulating coolant (assuming that the coolant is ordinary matter with mass).
One more suggestion is that the wings are shield generators. However most TIEs struck by laser cannon fire do not behave as if they are shielded. Furthermore, there is the significant fact that many classes of ships known to carry shield generators (eg. X-wings, Y-wings and star destroyers) do not also have features resembling TIE wings.

 

Yeah, doubt they'd even bother mentioning anything about it...

The closest they would come to changing it is making a new fighter without solar panels, so everyone just knows there is new tech behind it.

 

A nice picture of various TIEs I found elsewhere on the forum (not all of which are canon):

and a list identifying most of the canon ones:

 

For the real world A-wing analog, I'd go with the F-104. The age is wrong, but it's small and was blazing fast in its day. One of its nicknames was "the missile with a man in it."

 

It's even called the Starfighter.

 

The B-Wing was classed as a heavy starfighter but could easily by used in a light bomber role, but i'd like to see a light bomber type similar to the De Haviland Mosquito from WWII.

 

Wow this thread got technical real quick, what's wrong with just because it looks cool!?

 

Django, did you know that two Mosquitoes were restored and back in the air in the last year? One fighter and one bomber, both beautifully refurbished and authentic. I love Mossies!

 

That's a sweet design. I would love to see that in live-action. This raises anticipation, because it's probably not far off the mark.

 

No i didn't Sarge, but i got to admit they do look and sound fantastic and are my favourite WWII bomber.

 

...and then the tech of star wars VII book comes out and makes all the trekies heads explode because the tech isnt really explained but uses words that imply lower tech but with power output numbers that solo the Enterprise in one shot. When the star wars fans accept the bleep you that's why vs technobable approach to tech that trekies prefer.

I still lol every time a trekies says we use lasers (even though its clearly a bolt vs a beam which is how lasers behave), or yell at me that's not a shield generator but a radar tower, or we use fusion but they use antimater (but ignore the tidbit that we fuse HYPERmatter not real matter), and finally star wars ion engines are clearly just more advanced than earths so stop nit picking trekies... I swear it cracks me up everytime and I like trek (even marathoning Enterprise right now, but i just see the fan wars gping overdrive after VII xD )

 

Actually it's the head Warsie - Saxton - that insisted it was a radar tower - that the real shield generators are hidden away somewhere - and that the shields are lost not because one dome is destroyed but because the entire Rebel Fleet is blasting the Executor at the time.

Eventually he was forced to compromise, when writing the Complete Locations book - which depicts the dome as both sensor and shield generator.

He's also the one who insists that the laser/blaster/turbolaser etc is an invisible beam weapon, not a bolt weapon - with the bolt being "tracer".

 

He's out of his mind...he wishes Star Wars was Star Trek in tech terms...

 

There's that long-standing theory that the ICS books were written primarily to "one-up" Star Trek.

Moving on - I'd like to see something distinctive, while still harking back to the movies.

Maybe fighter-scale ion cannons? We don't really see them outside of the EU.

 

Yeah, the X-wing miniature game makes good use of the Y-wing with an Ion cannon. Would be interesting to see it put to use in film.

A fighter equipped with an Ion cannon incapacitates a ship pulled out of hyperspace by an Interdictor cruiser, all in successful attempt to take some character captive in an ambush!