Senate "Race" Relations (was "U.S. Society and Black Men")

the condition of racism in the united states does not depend on the facts of this one case, holmes

im still very curious how events "in the car" could have bearing on a man being gunned down 35 feet from the car. but hey, maybe in another week we'll know? can you taste the excitement? i know i can

 

The thing is, that replica looks sufficiently like the SCAR for me to assume it could at a distance create confusion. Race may have played a role in terms of how the officer/s chose to react but then again, it could have merely been caution in avoiding a mass shooting which, of late, has actually been more of a white male issue?

 

We're not talking about conditions in the whole united states. I'm talking about this one case.

Also, the events leading up to the shooting are very important to the case. This may very well turn out to be an unjustified shooting. I just think you should be waiting for the whole story to come out before your usual circlejerk.

 

It's not a real firearm, it's still a real gun. Which is why, for example, in California firing such a weapon at someone results in felony assault with a deadly weapon charges.

 

Reasonably sure 44 is aware of that...

 

I agree, it's kind of like attending a marathon with a bulky black packpack on and yelling "Allahu Akhbar!" for giggles.

 

okay vivec, how are the events leading up to the shooting very important to an unarmed man being gunned down 35 feet away? its very possible you could be right, i just am having a hard time coming up with a scenario or technology that would justify it. im imagining when all is said and done it will probably have fun buzz words like "mma style" invovled

 

To be clear, are you referring to the shooting of Mr Crawford?

Have you been in a situation where firearms were involved and there was hostile intent?

 

No, he's talking about Mike Brown, who was shot by police outside, not in a Wal-Mart, and was not carrying any type of weapon (even Skittles).

 

Yeah, I just meant that it accounts for the girlfriend's statements of "I know he didn't walk into the Wal Mart with a gun..." and "he was shot for a toy."

Well, sure. He didn't walk into the Wal Mart with a rifle, he grabbed the most realistic pellet gun they probably had, started screwing around with it, and caused 3 or 4 people to call 9-11 to report there was a possible active shooter. So while yeah, in her eyes it was probably a toy, but eh..

EDIT: E_S, Merk gave 2 scenarios in the opening post. Crawford in the Wal Mart, and Michael Brown.

Vivec's point is that the incident with Brown literally happened 48 hours +/- ago, and no information has been released regarding the cause or what happened.

 

Well I note that the officer's race in the St Louis incident hasn't been disclosed and they've requested the FBI investigate.

Rogue's just keen to try out his game idea:



EDIT: No I could see taht Mr44, it's just that Mike is not commenting on the Crawford shooting when we bring it up.

 

Ah, gotcha.

 

nope, still talking to vivec. havent made a single comment on the incident you and mr44 are so fascinated by

EDIT: well, i did say the guy looked like he could grow a goatee if he wanted to

 

the officer's race is only a little bit relevant. i have no objection to the fbi investigating

 

Sure, but the shooting you're discussing is so short on detail that the race of the officer involved hasn't been released. What happens if he, too, is black?

 

My point is just that her comments of "it's just a toy" aren't correct. It is something that is a deadly weapon, which I don't think there's a way around. Especially if he went on to point it at people.


Biggest problem is it's tricky to get evidence on these. For example, police would've gotten more away with this shooting if not for a neighbor having a security camera that captured it, given how much the cops lied about what happened. One of the examples I'm aware of where video came out that clearly showed not just what happened, but that the officers lied about what happened in blatant fashion.


On the other shooting, is this an area that uses dashcams or anything like that?

 

ummm... what? please, go on

 

How does the claim of racism stand up if the officer who discharged his weapon was also black?

 

im honestly a little bit flabbergasted that your concept of race and racism is so naive that you think black people, particularly black people assimilated into an institution as rigid as a police department, are incapable of holding internalized racist views about other black people. i even tried to give you some time to think about it and retract your comment, because i thought, "surely, his understanding of racism cant be that unsophisticated." i was wrong...

i know it might risk making you sound like a humanities student, but surely it wouldnt kill you to...

 

It certainly wouldn't reflect well on the Ferguson Police Department either way, and may serve as a microcosm for the racial problems in the institution of law enforcement in this country, whether the officer was justified in shooting 8 bullets into Brown or not.

After two nights of unrest in Ferguson, I'm not sure how much more damage learning whether the officer is white or not can do to that city. Perhaps cause it to spread to others?

 

I guess rogue that my point is actually maybe this speaks to deeper issues than race in American society. Like not just the systemic inequalities but the devaluation of human life and the propensity to resort to lethal force for like... no reason.

 

Or the fact that it hasn't been revealed what occurred?

For instance, here's a photo of one of the looters who were protesting this shooting in Ferguson. It's not important what race they are, or what they're doing. But look right at his front waist band. That's a pistol tucked into his pants. Why does a guy who is protesting a police shooting even need a pistol tucked into his waistband? (Isn't that kind of missing the point?)



If someone has photoshop capability, they should do a big red circle with an arrow pointing at the pistol.

Now, if that guy was struggling with police, could witnesses who were farther away miss seeing the gun tucked in his pants, but the officer have to deal with it? If he was reaching for that gun and got shot, is it conceivable that the pistol slip out, or slip down into his pants so that it looked like his hands were empty after getting shot when witnesses turn to look?

It doesn't mean that Michael Brown had a gun, or that the officer was justified and vice versa. But it highlights how witnesses could miss something.

The point is that no details have emerged about this shooting at all.

 

Some details have. The number of times he was shot, his distance from the squad car where he fell, and the detail about whether he was armed or not has in fact been reported. Unless I'm mistaken, FPD has not released any statement contradicting that last piece of information.

 

Rogue ten seems to live in this world where minorities can be racist against themselves. Every time a black person disagree with rogue ten on the issue of race, he or she has just "internalized racism." It's how internet social justice warriors deal with minorities disagreeing with them. Not to mention the fact that every time a mixed race person does something bad, they magically become white.