Darth Vader's New Look (Rebels)

LOL --- that would actually be an awesome segment for a new Family Guy special on TCW/Rebels era of Star Wars

 

Exactly ---- agree 100%

 

Thanks.

Disney loves kids, especially kids who have parents with thick wallets. Watch TFA earn its PG rating, and the "war movie" Rogue One will probably still go for a PG-13.

I also expect rebels to be replaced rather quickly by a show which shows the youth adventures of our new TFA heroes.

 

It does seem only fair to ask in return why you suppose it's NOT making the money back? Because a Star Wars product operating at a large loss would probably be big news what with how successful literally everything else they are doing right now is...

 

Darth Saxman

Once again, you impugn the intelligence of the audience as a whole, by suggesting any success the show might see is merely a result of Disney's massive marketing arm.

I have yet to hear why you are a better arbiter of the show's quality than the general public. What makes you more capable that the average Star Wars fan?

Why not just let them decide for themselves?

 

People *are* deciding for themselves and newsflash not all agree and that is FINE! You and others are also being insulting dude.

 

I remember that I once read that TCW was only barely a financial success, since animating episodes was so expensive. While rebels is cheaper, it is also watched by far less...

 

But as you say, costs less. Maybe the lower cost offsets the lower audience... maybe it doesn't. But simply assuming it is failing seems unfair frankly.

And Cushing's Admirer... yeah I think the tone has been relatively civil, or at the very least both perspectives are operating on a similar tone. So I would clamber off that high horse if I were you.

 

I'm NOT on one thanks though.

 

That's just silly. After all, going by Darth Saxman's logic, TFA doesn't doesn't need the additional marketing, because all us bums are going to see it anyway. Therefore Rebels can't just be for marketing reasons. Also, the argument that it's just for marketing is illogical due to the limited distribution. If it was for marketing TFA, they would be distributing it more widely.

 

Jakobitis --- a few of us shared what generation we are from, what order we watched the movies, our favorite SW movie etc. in order to understand how such a stark difference in taste, understanding of quality, appreciation of humor can arise.

Care to do the same? How about you, Darth Perva, Octavian, Jedi Knight Fett and anyone else posting in this thread. It would be interesting to see where we all stand so that we can see whether that sheds any light on our opinions for Rebels and Filoni in general.

 

Just out of curiosity... where are the insults you speak of? Because all I've seen thus far is some proper old fashioned debating, which is actually pretty decent for this board the internet. There's been some pretty passionate opinions but I don't recall any rudeness - anyone I've offended personally I apologise right now. (Though not of course for my opinions! )

@ Darth Saxman: Sure, would love to. Be interested in seeing the comparison myself. So here goes: didn't see the original trilogy in the cinema (through the slight disadvantage of being born too late, in 1989) but as a child in a family of geeks watched all three on VHS, repeatedly (and as far as I know, these were the original and totally unedited versions but I COULD be mistaken.) Saw the Phantom Menace on the big screen, thought it was pretty cool - the whole racism thing with Jar-Jar went straight over my head (I live in the UK where race is not QUITE as big a deal) and thought Darth Maul was just the most ridiculously awesome thing ever. The prequels are my big-screen Star Wars introduction and I enjoy all three - Revenge Of The Sith most of all SW films, then probably a New Hope by sheer dint of being the first one I watched at all rather than quality reasons. From there it goes roughly ESB, AOTC, ROTJ and TPM... but frankly there's not a lot in it and I enjoy all six.

Favourite character is Obi-Wan Kenobi by some considerable distance - the prequel version in particular. Least favourite... not sure. I guess that Imperial that Vader chokes early on in ANH? Don't have any character I really loathe.

Keeping it vaguely on topic.... Vader is definitely up there with my favourite characters in all of fiction, and probably my favourite villain. Mostly for the look and the voice over anything he actually did as when I was introduced to him the whole 'I am your father!' deal was not really all that as I was too young to really understand it properly.

 

You have to also understand that the revenue of a show is not just calculated based on what it makes while it's being produced. Its forecasted revenue based on things like syndication, tie-in novels, merchandising...etc all go into the equation.

The true success of ANH or ESB was not at the box office. It was all the Star Wars-branded stuff they sold afterwards.

 

You realize that Rebels is the most viewed show on disney XD so disney is gaining money and they would never through money at nothing.

 

I don't think there insulting but I agree that people can have there own opinions

 

Yep, there have been some opinions expressed rather forcefully (no pun intended) not least by myself but I don't think anyone's crossed any lines. I know Darth_Pevra and Darth Saxman have been pretty much directly opposed to myself in terms of opinion but both of them are posters whose opinion I do find interesting even if I disagree with it. It would be a dull old world if we all agreed on everything, and just because someone thinks that Ezra rips off Aladdin doesn't mean ALL their opinions are invalid... (he says in jest.)

 

It must be said that TCW just could not do beards. Obi-Wan's wasn't quite as... craggy... as Dooku's there but was remarkably solid. I can't imagine it's a total coincidence that of the two beards they've attempted in Rebels Kanan's got a little soul patch thing and Rex has gone for the fluffy cloud look. Kallus didn't even bother with an actual beard - just those glorious sideburn/mutton-chops of his.

What works in live action doesn't always work in a cartoon, and vice versa. I honestly think that a totally true to the movies Vader would not fit the aesthetic of Rebels very well. If you look at the art style but also the animation and action it's very elastic and rubber to go with the exaggerated look of the characters. Flips and amazing jumps are pretty standard amongst even non-Force users. A big, bulky Prowse-build Vader could look kind of silly in that kind of scene, potentially. He's still bigger than everyone whose not a Wookie - just not quite as hefty as in live action.

 

They were also inspired and imitating the micro series' style as well on TCW, least at first. George Lucas also wanted a unique look:

http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2013/06/dave-filoni-rebels-animation-will-be.html

 

I'm game for this, but only on the belief that you'll reciprocate by answering a question I've asked you twice already. Please don't prove me wrong.

I've been a Star Wars fan since before the Iron Curtain fell. I watched the movies in production order. In terms of favorites, I'd rank them as follows: ESB, ANH, ROTJ, AOTC, ROTS, TPM. I'd classify TCW and Rebels somewhere in the middle of that pack. I've hated Kevin J Anderson as an author ever since he killed off pointlessly killed off Crix Madine, and I got so disgusted with the Vong storyline of novels that I effectively quit reading the novels for almost a decade. I enjoy sunsets, long walks on the beach, and surface-to-orbit ion cannon fire.

Now, repeatedly and consistently you have insinuated that the general mass of Star Wars fans will essentially watch anything Star Wars related that's put in front of them, regardless of its quality, simply because it's the only Star Wars available. You've also suggested, essentially, the general public doesn't have the capability to discern "good" Star Wars material from "bad." Conversely, you've stood up and suggested that you do have the capability to discriminate between the two. So, I will ask again, for a third time, what makes you so special, so different from all the other Star Wars fans out there? Why are you somehow more inherently qualified to determine what's good or bad than the general fan base?

The bold is particularly interesting to me. To be blunt, as always, when you basically say: "I don't care if it's popular with everyone else, it's my duty to force them to change to meet my expectations", it smacks of obnoxious elitism.

 

Could always be worse..



I would've preferred the animation been like the trailers for Old Republic, and gotten into a debate about it. But what can do.

 

Yes I can I first watched the special editions because before , I was only semi interested in star wars. after watching the special editions TPM and the rest of the PT came out. So thats where my love for star wars truly began and in a period from 2005-2007 I really did not like star wars and was not interested so when I heard about TCW I said why not give it a shot and I did

Here I am now.

 

Thanks for the reply, OD --- I don't think I ever suggested that the general populace of Star Wars fans will lap up anything and everything that George or Filoni dish out. There's a HUGE fanbase and many don't double/triple/etc. dip on the DVD sets or even watch the TV shows.

What I meant was that there will always be a large enough portion of the fanbase that does line up to watch the latest Star Wars show just for pure entertainment in the Star Wars universe, no matter how mediocre the quality or how silly it gets. That's not incriminating the entire fanbase or even any particular member. It's just stating the very real fact that Star Wars shows will never suffer from a lack of fan support and viewing #s (at least when compared with other shows). It's probably not even the same fans lining up everytime for the same show.

I've never stated that the fanbase at large can't distinguish quality from crap and have not meant to take on a holy-than-thou stance on things. Yes, I do believe that I'm a reasonable judge of TV show / film quality, but it still ends up being my own opinion in the end. I know the OT era Star Wars quite well, and have seen the quality of Star Wars product output between 1977 and 1999, many of which are quite good. There are plenty of good products from 1999 to the present day as well, but the 80s and 90s were the glory days of quality OT-based star wars products.

I am most critical of Rebels and things like Vader's look in large part because it is all that we've got at this point and its setting canon in an important time period for the series. There is now word that Gary Whitta is authoring the Rebels season 2 finale and some episodes in Season 3, which will lead up to the Star Wars Rogue One movie that he authored. This implies that Rebels may heavily influence that movie ---- there may even be cameos of the Rebels crew in the film. Thus, Rebels has a huge responsibility to be as high-quality as possible for the sake of future Star Wars films and the Star Wars canon as a whole.

Filoni and his crew have just made too many questionable decisions IMO to be granted this privilege. I have a deep appreciation of the quality of the OT, and I feel that they are completely missing the mark, while at the same time "draping themselves with an OT flag" and claiming that everything they are doing with Rebels is to try to give it the OT feel. If they are really trying to return to the quality of the OT, then they have a really long way to go. There is nothing in the show that even remotely approaches the quality of the OT.

However, since enough fans still tune in to watch the one and only Star Wars show on TV, the questionable decisions and shortcomings end up being overlooked and given a pass because the show is dubbed popular and produces the $$$.

I'm trying my best here to provide a dissenting opinion that actually critiques Filoni's work instead of just blowing sunshine up his rear. I am not trying to imply that the portion of the fanbase that watches Rebels lacks taste. I'm sure many have similar criticisms as me, yet continue to watch, and those that don't share my criticisms don't lack taste --- they just have starky different taste.

However, I feel that that taste doesn't quite align with what made Star Wars rise to greatness 3 decades ago, and if that taste is allowed to shape the future of Star Wars, then the franchise as a whole is at risk of straying very far from its legendary roots.

 

Once again well put, Saxman.

I was barely alive when RotJ was released. It was also my first SW and remains my favourite. I much prefer the OT style to the PT and I put the shows on the bottom rung of visual SW media. To me it's all too simplistic and phony. I can't invest in something that isn't the least bit engaging.