Full Series Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir

Haha, ok. Yeah unfortunately looks like they omitted SOD to keep DD streamlined or whatever.

 

That's probably because it doesn't really have anything to do with Vos or Ventress and neither of them are aware of it happening. Would have been interesting if they had Vos duel Maul as was originally planned...

 

Maybe they just spared Vos in SoD because he's needed in Rebels too.

 

Vos can't die at all in the Clone Wars because he's mentioned in Revenge of the Sith, and he couldn't have died in Son of Dathomir because the second half of Dark Disciple takes place after that arc.

 

Well it also takes place after the 2nd invasion of Dathomir(SOD) but Ventress never bothered to check up on the males on the planet in DD from the looks of it , as she became a sexist like the rest of the Nightsisters and thus cared about the female Nightsisters and their apparent extinction so I guess that makes sense on one hand.

Vos may or may not of been in SOD, was in some early script supposedly and thats about all we know I guess. But it could be significant that the two arcs overlapped with eachother had they aired on TV rather than be two separate releases. But there does not appear much if any reflection on that in DD .

 

You have a point. However even in Clone Wars Talzin said to Ventress that Nightsisters are loyal only to themselves.Males were separated, cut off from knowledge about dark magic and used as mates and worriors.

The SoD in facts shows us that Talzin cares about Maul. But was it love to his son? Or only she cared about the faith of Dathomir and Maul at that moment was her only hope. Ventress was quite weak comparing to Maul and without Sith training. In SoD we can see Maul kneeling before her. It is not typical mother-son relation, but rather master and servant. Yes, she sacrificed herself in the end. But was it love, or only she was seeing in Maul only one who could defeat Sidious in future? With those darksiders you have to be careful talking about love. Anakin loved Padme, but under the control of dark side, he chocked her nearly to death.

This is also another prove, that females on Dathomir were loyal only to themselves. However I still wonder, why Talzin didn't contact Ventress too. As I said above, she wasn't of course as strong as Maul. But those two could team up. Especially that Ventress was Dooku's apprentice and she probably has knowledge about some of his weak sides.

 

I believe Talzin absolutely loves Maul, both as her son and heir to Dathomir. She sacrificed her physical body because she had done so before, when she resurrected him from madness. The physical realm isn't important when you're eternal - give her enough time and Talzin can return. I believe she left Ventress out of the 2nd invasion because she wanted a Nightsister from her clan to always be safe - someone that might unite the other clans and covens at some point. Same goes for Maul - she has at least one surviving Nightbrother - the strongest ever to exist, and a Lord of the Sith. Talzin's plan may still be unfolding...

 

Talzin was Maul's mother whom she retained a bond and affection with which is against the clan tradition, Talzin also allied herself with Sidious, an alpha male at some point in the past. She may not of been as sexist as Nightsister tradition and culture mandates but she apparently kept up the facade and with a do as I say not as I do routine apparently- she was very clandestine and her own ulterior motives pretty much right after Savage was brought to her by Ventress. She sacrificed all to heal her son, and finially give her own life selfishly. Maul witnessing a selfless act may of awaken something buried deep down, as I don't think he ever experienced love like he had felt towards his brother and his mother and them being cut down appears to fuel his anger and make him stronger but their may be a latent and unintentional side effect stirred within him, some sense of compassion like Vader felt for Luke after their duel on Bespin. SOD has shades and allusions of the OT in a foreshadowing manner, with Talzin being like Maul's Kenobi ghost and Maul being a parallel Luke or Galen Marek-like character even.

 

I agree, looking at the picture of Maul for his last arc he definitely has a much more calm, almost sage-like appearance, not what you'd expect from a typical Sith who had just suffered a crushing defeat.

 

Yes, he looks very content and ominous.

 

I know that Star Wars Episode I Journal: Darth Maul isn't canon anymore. However there is Maul statement, that he was ready to die for his master. And not because of love or even some kind of devotion, but because Sidious represented Sith's purpose and future. I that moment in SoD, Talzin knew that he won't be able to defeat Sidious. So saving Maul was only the right choice, because of Dathomir future. And as you have already said, she is in some way immortal. So we can't say about absolutely sacrifice.

Was there mention in TCW or in SoD, that Talzin had been working with Sidious in the past? In one episode of TCW in was mention that Siths and Nightwitches were working together in the past, but not specifically Talzin and Sidious. Or did I miss something?

In The Wrath of Darth Maul (still not canon, I know ) there was a moment, when Sidious made Maul to kill everybody in the Orsis Academy. Maul had a moment of hesitation, when he was thinking about Kilindi (who was kind for him) and Trezza (who respected him). But then he turned his heart (hearts?) into stone(s). He deprived himself of every "human" emotion as compassion, frienship or care for living beings. I think what Clone Wars creators are trying to show us is that suffering and tragic past can change people. Vader went to the dark side because of saffering. But for Maul there was moments when he was giving up dark side way. He admitedlly cared for Savage, probably because he saved him from his madness. At first I only thought that he just need Savage. But in The Lawless episode, when Sidious showed up, Maul could just kill Savage trying to showed Sidious, that his "apprentice" is redundant. Instead he challenged Sidious. Probably Maul also cared for Talzin, but I am not sure. Maybe they only needed each other to defeat the Dark Lord.

I wish the Clone Wars season 7 and wasn't cancel. I also saw the concept below, but i think it is fan-made work

 

The mention of Sidious and Talzin working together was from Son of Dathomir, in Showdown on Dathomir, I think.

 

In Monster (S0213) Talzin states that the only reason she was helping Dooku was because he helped her "long ago". This suggests that there was some alliance between the Nightsisters and Sith.

 

Looks like Sideshow is working on a new Darth Maul, shirtless and with armored wrist guards reminiscent of something he was wearing in the canceled video game Darth Maul: Battle of the Sith Lords.

 

When Maul implores Talzin in the issue 2 of SoD and suddenly her green mist appears out of his chest, it seems to me that neither he nor Talzin do that for the first time. So I really want to know when such a misty connection is happening for the first time between Maul and Talzin where Maul is more astounished about that phenomenon.

Secondly: I observed that in issue 3 of SoD that Obi-Wan states: "So it's true. You [Maul and Dooku] are working together". But where was that connection mentioned for the first time? When Palpatine speaks at first with Mace Windu in the comic he just gives the Jedi the intel that Dooku is fighting Maul at Ord Mantell. And then later Obi-Wan states this new Sith-team as if to have been assumed before.

So was that both mentioned out of the comic before? The first Talzin's coming-out of Maul's chest and the mentioning of Maul being Dooku's apprentice? Or was that cut within the SoD-arc originally planned as animated cartoon appearing now in the shortened comic-version leaving a gap now?

 

Seems he's using Force mediation to channel Talzin's presence in issue #2, so some effort was made to reach her. Maul is of her blood, so she would naturally have a preexisting bond and would emerge from his body. The seen is reminiscent of Talzin attacking Dooku and projecting herself out've his body - but that connection was done through a lock of Dooku's hair.

In issue #3 opens with some exhange between Palpatine and Windu but some of it looks missing. Palpatine tries planting the seed that Maul could be the "rogue Sith" the Jedi have been looking for in some attempt to mislead them about himself, but just the panel prior Palpatine just finished saying the citizens who survived the blitz on Ord Mantell idenited Count Dooku leading an invasion against a red-skinned Force wielder of some type. Seems Palpatine is more concerned if the Jedi are suspucous of him & on to Darth Sidious . He wanted to know what they knew. besides I think all he had to go on was Dooku's last transmission and the Republic military and Jedi Generals keeping him up to speed as for all intents and purposes Maul defeated the Separatist army right there on Ord Mantell in one clear victory. Dooku and Grievous captured and an entire army captured which Maul still has somewhere. Palpatine had to be pretty shook up at that point.

Windu didnt bite one way or the other, he used "if" in his reply back to the Chancellor Obi Wan and Windu were in the same room during that exchange. Windu didnt look convinced, and retorted if he is or if he and Dooku were figtting against eachother. Maul's Shadow Collective attempted to erase all trace of the Ord Mantell battle for whatever reason, but they did not kill civilians who were eye witnesses which is an odd play for Maul as you'd think he'd eliminate all traces but this Maul seems different from one that first came back - he seems to hold honor in more esteem which may be a nod back to his Dark Horse comic as he was a more honorable warrior in most of the EU and not a complete lunatic like some episodes of TCW but this Maul was recovering from the trauma of madness. But that is speculation.

Ord Mantell aftermath presumably would've contained scenes with Wolff and Plo Koon, as Secura walked in the briefing room with a Mando helmet and said Wolff found it on Ord Mantell. Windu mentions something about that confirming intel on Mandalore in which Mandalorian Resistance claimed there was an alliance between Prime Minister Almec and the Underworld and that its still intact . The Jedi(Windu) seemed concerned to not let Mandalore fall into the hands of Separatists , here he appeared to think they were fighting eachother and that the Republic could use that capture them both and end the war. So its its unclear if he believed these were the only Sith which is not the case since Yoda knows of Sidious for certain from his arc not to mention Kenobi told them of Sidious after the events of Genosis back in AOTC. In DD Windu wants Dooku dead not captured now, and then their is confirmation again of Sidious. So whatever contained on Tano/Mandalore arc would not be the Jedi thinking there was no Darth Sidious the Sith Master.

 

That is the problem when something like the changing of the mother-person of Maul is retconned. In "Wrath of Darth Maul", Talzin was a complete stranger to him. And when Filoni decided only recently to make Talzin his mother, then we are missing a back-story of that, like when Talzin reveals herself for the first time to Maul as his mother.

I think Filoni wanted a journey for Maul like he did with Ventress. After Ventress realized that there was no place for her in the New Order of the Sith and their Grand Plan, she took refuge with her fellow Nightsisters believing to have found a new home and the final truth till Dooku and Grievous scattered all her dreams of righteousness and security.

Then we have Maul, abandoned by Sidious and treated as a renegade by him. He found re-birth and help by Mother Talzin and Savage. Then in #3 of SoD his mother Talzin is rushing to his aid again. And he is subjugating to Talzin's Grand Plan without hesitation nor doubt. He told Dooku: "Mother Talzin showed me the real Power. I have seen the truth." He is so much dwelling in Talzin's superiority and her new role as a new insurance for his safety and a new bright future that he tells Sidious when the latter asked about Maul's demand for the captured Dooku and Grievous: "Not my demands - Mother Talzin's" (we still don't know anything about). Just to find out that this new truth is scattered again by Dooku and Sidious (not to mentioned Grievous who only played the part of being her official murderer for the public).

And this because Dooku was treacherous again by freeing Grievous who informed Sidious about Dookus and Maul's whereabouts thus stealing the time Mother Talzin needed to recover fully from the essence-transfer from Dooku's "withered bones" to become complete again. Dooku, who attacked Talzin with his master with combined force-lightning. Just as we saw, Sidious with Grievous alone wouldn't have hold themselves against Maul and Talzin.

And now Maul is completely free like Ventress to be left alone without guidance and he has to fulfill a new destiny (with or without his Mandalorians, wich will be revealed in a new comic of the Mandalore Arc as a continuation of Maul's fate or even as an Ahsoka-Spin-Off-Movie for that is also her arc.

Anyway, Talzin's lines "not this time" in #4 of SoD, while denying the posibility of escaping with Maul together insinuate that she may have escaped and cheated death once more, leaving behind her by Grievous destroyed new body and now she is roaming around with her green mist again, waiting for a third chance of return.

 

Yea, there is problem being that it appears Maul always knew who is mother was(father is unknown or perhaps is Brother Viscus? But they never go near the father's identity as the importance is on Talzin), and that it was Talzin but they had near 0 interaction on the show. Talzin vanished soon as Maul awoke on the stone slab from the healing exorcism thing.

 

Maul and Talzin are both strong in the Force, so he may have always known, just as Leia knew the general idea of and feelings surrounding her mother. Excluding interactions between them in the show really left me wanting to see that relationship explained, and of course we know now that they were saving the reveal for later episodes (SOD). I don't think Talzin should have immediately returned to spirit ichor after healing Maul, but its possible that she used so much power in his resurrection that she had no choice...

 

Maybe Palpatine is the father. Stranger things have happened in this franchise, and with it's fondness of 'I am your father' I wouldn't be surprised.

 

Well who knows, yeah. I thought maybe being SW after reading that issue with an "oh no".. I however would argue against it as Maul like 8-10 years old in the panel when Sidious first set eyes on Maul as that is what the comic alluded to. And neither Palpatine or Talzin are Zabrak. Could claim Talzin was partially but there is no evidence of even that and the females arent horned and if she mated with a human then the genes would've been even more watered down. Zabrak arent native to Dathomir, seems they were imported there at some point in the past, possibly by the Nightsisters - Talzin herself is supposed to be very ancient but no exact number of years are stated but it would imply 500-1,000 years or more imo.

I think its on that basis though , when he was a young child Maul knew Talzin in some capacity before he was either stolen or taken by Sidious its not exactly clear which. How would Sidious know of Maul as Nightsisters apparently do not hold on their male offspring is another question. Did this change after male was taken or was Talzin completely rogue then - she does not seem bound by their rules from the cartoon as she was a close ally to a male , with Sidious back then.

Palpatine was something of a father-like figure to Maul and Anakin/Vader - but thats just a guise he takes to hook you in as he has no real genuine attachment for any of his apprentices or allies.

 

One thing I wonder about Sidious finding Maul is whether Plageuis is still around at the time or in the canon verse Palpatine goes off to find an apprentice after killing his master- which personally I think it should be how it goes.

 

Can't find an exact canon age for Maul, but I suppose that should be 15 or more years before TPM, Maul couldnt been any older than Anakin in TPM in that boyhood panel. Sidious seems to have been allied with Mother Talzin who was teaching him things he apparently did not learn from Plagueis. Palpatine's dialogue in ROTS to Anakin, seems to come across like he sought out knowledge of the Force including the darkside to become this wise and powerful leader. The story of Plagueis being an Old Sith Legend was apparently misleading, unless Palpatine killed Plagueis more in his youth days, some 30+ years before TPM and his training was not complete for whatever reason.

 

IMHO Maul was three years old, when Sidious took him. And, Silentguy, Sidious was still the apprentice when he took Maul as his apprentice. Plagueis did know that and they both gave him missions. But Maul didn't know about Plagueis' existence in return. Just check it out in the novels "Darth Plagueis" by James Luceno and "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter" by Michael Reaves.

 

I doubt he was 3 years in that panel. Maybe he was observing Talzin and Sidious training on Dathomir on and off for a few years but the very limited nature of origins being presented to the audience hints at either more origins was to come in later episodes down the line to season 8 or 9 or whatever they decided to end the series and start a new one. Or they want to reserve some material for a future comic series or novel.