PT Was Anakin Skywalker a "bad" Jedi?

I seriously can't understand how people continue to blame the Jedi (and respective advice) for Anakin's own failures. There's literally nothing wrong with Yoda's advice. In fact, had Anakin followed Yoda's advice, Padmé would be alive and Anakin wouldn't have fallen.

"But poor Anakin was different."

No, he knew the right thing to do and he also knew that what he ended up doing was wrong but he did it anyway. If he wanted to be with Padmé, he could have left the Jedi Order. But he wanted the best of both worlds, and such greed and attachment was exploited by Palpatine. Still, Anakin had many chances to right his wrongs but he ignored them until it was too late.

 

I think a lot people just want some reason to hate on the Jedi, imo.

 

Yes. I think this pretty much sums it up. And Lucas has been more than obliging in giving vent to that idea - both through the PT and, further, through TCW.

Oddly, as I have often pointed out....that doesn't appear to match with the original structure which ended with the (uplifitng, positive) Return of the Jedi. Which, as far as I can tell - Return being a pretty strong indicator of recurrence, of an endurance of an idea - posits Jedi ideals within as positive light; and Luke was quick to grasp that what he had learned was what it was to be a (to do) Jedi, and to see the culmination of his teachings as being what it actually was that the Jedi understood and believed. "I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

He didn't reject what the Jedi had being trying to guide him toward, he grasped what they had actually been leading him toward and embraced it.

 

There were many things that were positive about the Jedi Order, but to think that it wasn't without flaws before the PT, was itself a flawed idea.

 

Really? Then why Return of the Jedi?

"I am a Jedi, like my father before me"

Not...'a jedi, but in a new and reformed way' but " a Jedi, like my father...."

Not...A New Jedi but Return of the Jedi


And....what Order?

 

Honestly I don't see the Anakin as a poor Jedi as difficult to understand at all. Yes, he was. I believe the whole point of his character is to show how the Old Order was far too rigid, unsympathetic, dogmatic, and arrogant to realize they need to do two things: not accept Anakin as a member and modify their approaches. The Jedi are partially at fault for what transpires due to lack of wisdom and foresight.

I don't need to hear the usual spiel of 'victim blaming'. Regardless of one's circumstances one is still responsible for one's actions and being wronged doesn't justify wrong in return.

 

Wasn't their decision to accept Anakin a member a moment of being less rigid than usual?

 

only one kenobi

I agree with you. The Jedi did have problems in the PT, but TCW made them out to be terrible people. I just don't understand it. I too have always thought the "Return" part was always meant to be a positive sign. But now, I don't know anymore.

 

Anakin was a Jedi who broke rules and disobeyed the council.

Even if he never existed or didn't become Darth Vader, Palpatine had so many other ways to destroy the whole of the Jedi order and form the Empire. If he didn't help with Order 66 he simply would've been a victim of it.

 

Very true. I'm reminded of the novelization, when Anakin first has his dream of Padme dying. At the Temple the next day, Yoda senses his fear, and invites him in to talk. Anakin is so happy, so RELIEVED and grateful that Master Yoda is willing to help him, only for that help to be telling Anakin to be happy for those who die, and to let go of his attachment to that person.

 

Yeah, I mean in the end Anakin is responsible for his choices, but at the same Yoda should know Anakin won't do such things.

 

Pretty much summarized my view.

 

The way I see it is this.

The Jedi Order = Parents.
Anakin= Child.

Just because the Jedi Order (the parents) didn't do a good job raising the child (Anakin) doesn't give the child permission to do bad things. It sucks that Anakin was likely treated as an unwanted outsider from the very minute he stepped into the Temple, but how would killing every Jedi in the Temple and assisting in the enslavement of the galaxy make it all better? "It's OK, Annie, I know the mean Jedi were terrible to you. I understand why you had to help commit genocide and oppress trillions of worlds."

 

The title had multiple meanings.

1. It meant that Luke was back.

2. It refers to Anakin becoming a Jedi again.

3. That Luke was tasked with rebuilding the Jedi Order.

When Luke says that he was a Jed like his father, that doesn't change anything about what the Jedi were. It just meant that there would be a new Jedi Order.

The one that the Jedi were part of.

Really? How? He would he know that Anakin wouldn't follow through on his training.

 

Pretty much this.

Although, I don't think they didn't want him, it's just he was too old, like Master Windu said. Anakin, imo, shows how a Jedi would be if they are old enough to remember their parents/home worlds.

 

Anakin would've been the chosen one either if he had turned over Palpatine to the Jedi order if he killed him years later through betrayal.

 

I think Anakin was more of the war-hero, warrior type, rather than wise Jedi. He was always more about action, rather than intellect. Although I believe Palpatine's dangerous influences helped keep him from becoming too trustful of the Jedi over those years, Anakin has always had an unstable personality. He was extremely ambitious and devoted to the ones he loves. Unfortunately, a Jedi should be dedicated more to the Order and the ways of the Force. I think part of this comes from his missing his mother and all that...Although Obi Wan may not have been the best teacher, it's not really him to blame-between Anakin's personality and Sidious' influence, Anakin was shaped into what one could call a "loose cannon" so to speak. Powerful, but unpredictable and potentially dangerous...

A BAD Jedi? Well, I'd say he was GOOD in the way of being powerful and devoted to those he cared about. BUT bad in the traditional "Jedi way." Unable to let go of his fear and will to control everything...

 

What if Qui Gon had never died?

 

What if what? That's been addressed many times over.

 

I could see better motivations for why Anakin joined the dark side and hated the Jedi. He could be long angry at them for not allowing him to or themselves helping to free his enslaved mother and in turn helping to save her life. Anakin might develop the feeling while the Jedi supposedly care about the greater good of the galaxy, they are too arrogant or blind to care about smaller life forms around them and ending injustice there like his mother. This attitude is perpetuated towards Padme too who he feels the Jedi will fail to allow him to protect or they themselves despite being representatives of the Republic.

Other failures of the Jedi such as being to weak or blind to stop the Separatist crisis from developing, the covert creation of a clone army under their noses, and more could also create bitterness which leads him to the dark side.

 

"...some of the people had a hard time with the reason that Anakin goes bad. Somebody asked whether somebody could kill Anakin's best friend, so that he really gets angry. They wanted a real betrayal, such as, "You tried to kill me so now I'm going to try and kill you." They didn't seem to understand the fact that Anakin is simply greedy. There is no revenge. The revenge of the Sith is Palpatine. It doesn't have much to do with Darth Vader; he's a pawn in the whole scheme....

So I had to ask myself, what was I trying to say and didn't I say it? Did it just get missed or it is it not there? I had to look at it very hard. I had to ask myself, Is this how the audience is going to react? Fortunately, Steven confirmed that most of everything was working. So I may lose a certain demographic - maybe, maybe not. But I had to make a decision, and I decided that I'm not going to alter the film to make it more commercial or marketable."

--George Lucas, The Making of ROTS, page 188.

He doesn't really hate the Jedi. He just doesn't care about them the same way he does about Padme. The only people that Anakin truly hates in ROTS is the Separatist Council and Obi-wan. That's why both times we see his eyes change color, it has to do with them. Afterwards, the only person left to hate was himself.

 

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering!!!!

The suffering part is not just the suffering you bring unto others, but unto yourself... Fear, anger, hate, it's what gets you there...

 

No, but he could've tried to offer a solution besides "Be happy they will die." But the strict Jedi edicts at that time would not allow the idea of trying to look into the Force and see if there was a way to stop it.

Funnily enough, after all he "learned", Yoda is still teaching this decades later, when he tells Luke he should allow his friends and as-yet-unrevealed sister to be tortured, suffer, and possibly die.