ST Anakin Skywalker in the New Films

You shouldn't throw around terms like double-standard just because it works for "you".

I'd also be against replacing Jackson with Morgan Freeman in the PT.

 

You're right in a sense when it comes to the movies, however TCW expanded on the character a lot. Anyway, Force ghost Anakin would have invaluable information about the darkside that could help our heroes in the ST, and i think that's where it'd be relevant. Also, don't forget that 30 years have passed since RotJ, and Anakin's spirit has no doubt grown and learned. I'm sure he probably had to atone for his evil acts in the spirit realm and that brings with it a very deep understanding of truth and spiritual evolution and growth. Also keep in mind that time has no meaning in the afterlife, and 30 years can be the equivalent of 3000 years of learning and experience.

 

First of all I wasn't talking to you directly when I said that some people have double standards. I was talking generally, because some people DO have double standards when they are talking about Star Wars.

If Jackson had one minute of screen time, and Freeman two movies, I wouldn't complain as long as there are both version available.

 

I honestly think Disney doesn't really give one rat's arss about "canon" per se. They'll ultimately do whatever is necessary to maximize their profits. The fans fight and bicker over the most ridiculous things, and Disney loves it because they can capitalize on it all, it doubles their SW market lol.

I say make Star Wars your own and take away from it what makes you happy....enjoy it the way you want to. Canon is what you make it.

 

The biggest purpose for having Hayden reprise his role (as a Force ghost I would assume), that I can think of, would be for him to appear before Kylo Ren and explain away the events that lead to his death.

From what I've read the Acolytes from the Beyond/Knights of Ren (or whomever) have the wrong idea about Vader. I'm almost certain that they don't know that he saved his son and returned to the light.

 

I never said I hated him, I just don't particularly care for his acting in the prequels and haven't seen much outside of them to make me think much more, despite a decent performance here and there. You seem to emotionally involved to discuss it properly.

However I'd be interested in your unbiased opinion and answer the question you quoted - assume Shaw remained all these years, assume George never changed it, assume the idea of it never existed, would you or like-minded PT fans be pushing for the change to HC or can you honestly admit that if the change never happened it was never necessary in the first place?

 

The reason I got so PO'd is that I see it everywhere and had finaIIy reached my 'OMGWT*C?' point - It seems every thread invoIving the PT dissoIves into Undeserved Hayden Beating, but we're drifting into 'this beIongs in the Saga forum' territory.

This aII being said, the Shaw repIacement is frankly the Ieast of my beefs with the OT changes (Han being a coId hearted 'shoot first pay Iater' - Greedo NEVER Fired!) TBH, I agree with the thought that Anakin 'died' in PaIp's office, Frankenvader was brought to Iife with the souI of Padme ('broken heart' my arse) so retroactivIy, Haydakin was the right change but it wouIdn't ruin it for me either way.

 

Hayden appearing at the end of RotJ makes more sense than Shaw.

 

No it really doesn't. What makes the most sense is an aged version of Hayden to match the age he was at his time of death.

Anyway not sure if anyone has made this point already, but Hayden wanted to return for the clone wars and was not given the opportunity to do so. It's not very likely Lucas film will ask him back now either. More likely a recast, with a similar looking actor they would CG to have more of Haydens features.

 

Honestly, although I wouldn't have specifically requested it, Hayden replacing Shaw does not bother me at all. It's not disrespectful to Shaw because he wasn't acting. Starlog magazine had an interview with Shaw where he basically said that he got dressed as a Jedi and Lucas told him to smile and look happy. It was all shot against a green screen and Shaw himself thought it was just for publicity. So it's not an issue for me.

I feel like a lot of the backlash against Hayden as Anakin is rather unfair. The insertion of Ian McDiarmid into TESB is far more extensive and removes two actors completely from the Saga but I've seen much less backlash. So it makes it seems as though people just have it out for Hayden in particular, rather than that they're standing up for "artistic merit" or "preservation."

I'd like to see Hayden return but he's already confirmed that he won't. And I don't believe Disney will go out and include him. There's a vocal contingent of the Star Wars fan base that hates him and, for Disney, I imagine it's more trouble than it's worth for them to bring him back. Which is a pity, in my opinion, but what can you do?

I wouldn't want Hayden too much in the film anyway -- the new films really need to establish new characters. One thing I hope is that, while I love Luke and Leia, I don't want them to overshadow the new cast members. (I honestly wish Han/Harrison Ford would leave but considering he's the most popular…that's not gonna happen).

 

Never mind - the whoIe dissusion is redundant

 

Yes it really does. Hayden's ghost makes perfect sense. "Anakin Skywalker" died in Palpatine's office in RotS. When Vader dies on the DS2, "Anakin" returns, not "old broken down Vader" (Sebastian Shaw). The point of Hayden as the ghost was to show Anakin as he was when he was the good Anakin before his fall. Makes perfect sense to me. But if you wanna go the aged route (which i don't think they need to actually), the CGI-aged-up Hayden would've worked too.

 

That was a rumour that came out during the making of The Clone Wars feature length after Sir Christopher Lee and Samuel L. Jackson would be portraying Dooku and Mace instead of Corey Burton and Terrence Carson. Nothing was ever confirmed or denied if I remember right.

 

Well, it's all but confirmed that Ford will indeed leave in VII.

Otherwise, I agree with you. I have nothing against Hayden, but I don't necessarily need him as a force ghost in TFA or the rest of the ST. That's the story of the new generation of heroes. But if he is, I'm not the one who will bash the film.

Gesendet von meinem GT-P3110 mit Tapatalk

 

That's logic that GL had to invent to justify the change and his supporters go along with. It doesn't hold to any kind of internal logic that we ever get from any of the movies. Besides, Anakin died on the Death Star II since by that logic he returned to the good side before passing. Actually you could say he turned back to the good side by his decision to forsake the dark side and killing the Emperor. Good guy Anakin returned the moment he forsook the dark side.

Also, if Anakin truly died in ROTS, then his redemption with Luke being convinced that there was "still good in him" is nullified. Vader said "That name no longer has any meaning for me". He didn't say "That guys dead, I'm literally a different person now" You know why? Because he didn't die! Lets not forget that "I am your father" doesn't make sense unless Vader realizes and believes that he is in fact Anakin. By GL pulling on these digital threads he's unraveling the whole sweater. Lots of things start to lose logical cohesion as outside explanations need to be added to negate the effects of the change.

The only way this can make sense is to go even further and replace Shaw in the DS II hanger bay by, somehow, inserting HC as the burnt and somewhat aged Anakin and have him repeat the dialogue to Luke. As it is the young force ghost of Anakin seems like a forced, half measure, done by someone addicted to tinkering. Frankly, I'm surprised he didn't do it.

 

The reason Hayden replacing Shaw is completely unforgivable to me is that it makes no sense in the context of the OT films. You should not have to watch AOTC and ROTS to understand who that creepy force ghost at the end of ROTJ is. You should only need to watch ROTJ to understand it. My wife - a very intelligent woman with a degree from Cambridge University - asked a very legitimate question after watching ROTJ recently: "Who was that young ghost with the evil smile? Is that a hint for what comes next?" In other words, she got an ominous vibe from it, and thought it hinted at some sort of future dark side return.

That's just irresponsible filmmaking, IMO. Casual viewers should not be thrown off like that.

 

I'm okay with it. If i had it my way, i'd go back and change Obi-Wan as well, i liked Ewan better than Alec. Guiness never really respected SW anyway. Besides i think the younger force ghosts make more sense from a spiritual view as well. But everyone has their opinion. I'm older, i was raised on the OT and i have no problem with the changes, i liked Hayden; mind you, i'm not a huge fan of TPM or AotC, but i absolutely loved RotS.

 

Didn't they do the same with Hayden when they did that shot for ROTJ?

Well said Edgar Allen Poe Dameron!
Anakin is there in ESB and ROTJ before the end.
For that to be (imo), Anakin has to have a part of him survive ROTS.
Older Anakin succeeded where younger Anakin did not.
To show younger Anakin again, neuters the growth Anakin made through out the Saga imo.
It lessens the impact of the return of Anakin at the end of ROTJ imo.
I feel the good in you. The conflict.
Obi-Wan once thought as you did. Way too many things in the movies make me think that Shaw Anakin is the way it should be.

 

I respectfully disagree, but i do see and respect your point of view. For me it's simply the fact that Hayden is Anakin, not Shaw, and he looks nothing like Hayden, not to mention he looks older than Alec lol. Plus, younger force ghosts are the way to go imo.

 

Hayden might be Anakin during the PT but during the OT? Might still be Anakin but completely different temperament.
Might be my OT-centricness coming out but Shaw was Anakin first. If they wanted someone, they should have gone with a shaw look alike. I don't appreciate the movies that come out later get to retcon the previous movies. It should go the other way.
Heck, I'd settle for a 46 year old Hayden.

 

I'm oldschool too, i was raised on the OT.

 

I believe that they wanted someone who will be more similar to Luke...

 

It's George's vision. My family are casual fans and they understand because they watched the PT as do many othets. Anakin died in Palps office.

That was a rumor. He expressed interest in doing it in an interview but he didn't pursue it.

 

Given a very good director and well written dialogue, nobody should be objectionable to any actor being cast. A very good director can bring out a performance in anyone given they have at least a modest ability in acting, and this would be a very brief scene or scenes where the character would be 'calmed'.

A brief scene or scenes of a few minutes could do a lot to heal the rift that seems to be there between Christensen and many fans.

 

It was Lucas' vision so we have to accept it. No alternate POV's allowed. The be all end all argument.
Saw the OT first and see things differently. I take Lucas' words and hear them but that doesn't stop me from coming up with my own interpretations of things. I don't change my mind just because someone else says something differently. Even if he is the Creator.
Anakin died at Palpatine's Office? Maybe you should watch the Mustafar and Darth Vader suiting scenes again. Anakin was there until the end of the movie. Why ask about Padme otherwise?