ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

Nomoffense, but you are not the arbiter of the what is true Star Wars potential. And frankly, your story sounds a LOT weaker to my mind.

 

What will you say if it's a really good story that people like? Give it a chance before you write it off. You're kinda basically saying that if it's not the movie you want, then it sucks, or at least it sounds that's what you're getting at.

For the record, I'll see ya in the theater on opening night

 

I don't see that...he could always call out to Leia at some point. Unless this planet is so far away that he can't communicate to her? I'm not sure how effective it is based on range, but I guess there has to be a limit, though.

This whole marooned on a planet thing sounds too much like the events that occurred in the Star Trek reboot.

 

I like that 'the only logical continuation' is a synonym for 'it has to be exactly the way i imagined it in my fanfic'.

That said, i do now want a T-shirt with "We don't want anything from you, Skywalker. You will die for your crimes" on it.

 

To be fair, I think KK et al are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Who doesn’t want more SW films? Who doesn’t want to see Luke, Leia and Han again? The thing is, it’s an imperfect premise because Lucas effectively concluded the story with ROTJ. Anything that comes afterwards kind of has to be grafted onto the existing films/narrative (regardless of how good or bad the new ideas are). Personally speaking, I would have either gone with a new trilogy, with the OT cast as the main leads, or a new trilogy with completely new characters/situations. What we have here, understandably, is a fusion of the two. I think KK et al more than likely believed that Ford, Hamill and Fisher were probably too old to carry the ST alone... and that a new trilogy without the OT cast and iconography (Han, Luke, X-wings, Vader, stormtroopers etc.) would be too removed from what went before. So regardless of how good/bad/indifferent the ST is, for me (similar to the PT) it’s an inherently flawed concept to begin with (which of course doesn’t mean it still can’t be enjoyed on its own merits).

 

I have to second this. "My way or the highway", right?

From what little footage I've seen, it looks like Abrams and co. have nailed it. Granted, I have no inkling of what the whole story is all about as I've tried to avoid too much spoilers but it really looks visually pleasing. And there's something extremely menacing with the whole Nazi'ish theme of The New Order.

And yes, your suggestion, sorry to say, seems quite dull.

 

It always makes me chuckle when people think their ideas or suggestions are better than the professional film makers, the musicians, the sportsmen or whoever / whatever it is that we watch to be entertained. As individuals we will either like it or not and we will all have our own thoughts on what could possibly have worked better or what we would have liked to have seen, its human nature I guess.

At the end of the day they are trying to make a good SW movie in the mould of what George has done before. If to get that new set of stories off to a good and solid start it means employing a director who seems to be good at making tribute films then so be it. If it means using imagery and characters that evoke that nostalgia of the OT then I don't mind that either. I don't expect any new SW film to have the same impact as the originals did because its all been done before, but I'm pretty sure they will have done their best to make a good SW film. I hope come Dec I'm not disappointed by it, but I'm willing to keep an open mind til I've seen it.

 

If TFA opened with captured Luke, how many people would say "a Jedi Master wouldn't let himself be captured. Failure!"

I'm only being a little snarky there. But seriously, that's one possible storyline, sure. But I believe what JJ/LK have done is craft a story which gives Luke a lot more credit. At this point, Luke is a legend. He's the one that people talk about. He's not hanging out with the "normal" folk anymore, he's practically a myth, larger than life, someone everyone looks up to, aspires to be.

Luke has become an "idea". It's basically what some superhero stories are about. Like Batman. Doesn't matter who wears the mask, the idea is what endures. Luke embodies this in ep 7, imo. He's the only one that can save the day in people's mind. The only downside to this is that we don't see him until well into the journey. But, the idea of Luke has been elevated up in everyone's mind.

Actually, if you look back to when ANH originally came out, this is kinda how Luke's father was viewed (before he was merged with the character Darth Vader). Obi-wan spoke highly of him. Gold Leader spoke highly of him (even more so in the deleted scene in the Yavin Hangar). Anakin Skywalker was a larger than life figure in the mind of the populace. He was present in spirit, but not physically. I believe this to be the approach JJ/LK have taken with Luke, as well.

His reveal will be meaningful after much hype and build up by the other characters. It would be like in ESB, instead of Vader being revealed as Luke's father, Anakin was still alive and revealed himself as a good guy to help out.

Then (hopefully) we'll see what Jedi Master Luke can do.

 

This makes me wonder if the New Republic (I hope they change their name to Galactic Republic upon taking control of the galaxy) will join the battle in VIII. The Republic didn't participate in the battles in TPM.

 

I'm questioning the use of the word "dramatic" here.

What you've suggested as the beginning of ep7 is not really "dramatic" in the way many professional writers think of the term. You've offered a circumstance and a conflict, but no "drama." Drama exists when a character must make a difficult choice; a situation in which either path he or she chooses carries significant risk. In this scenario, Luke does not really have a choice with any interesting or dramatic stakes involved. The bad guys have attacked and now he is their prisoner.

"Rey and Finn and some old lightsaber" are far more "dramatic" because these two characters both seem to be running from things in their past that have the potential to destroy them when they make the choice to answer the call heralded by the lightsaber they discover. By dismissing the elements of a classic, time-tested dramatic set-up in favor of a painfully simple premise demonstrates your own inability to grasp the basic elements of dramatic narrative.

I mean, we are all free to like/dislike the ideas that Abrams and Co. have come up with, and we all have our personal tastes and preferences, but don't try to masquerade your opinion as the result of some elevated understanding of storytelling by tossing out a word like "dramatic."

 

Amen.

 

Where have you been, Red Leader? You're our only hope.

But seriously, excellent points.

 

Ha! Thank you!

(I've been busy, but excitement for the upcoming preview brought me back.)

 

Good post, Red.

When all is said and done, I hope we're told about how much they differed from the Lucas treatments, and what exactly was changed (if they stuck with some of the ideas).

 

so according to the poster the writing credits are
"written by Lawrence Kasdan & JJ and Michael Arndt."
so theu did use Lucas's stuff.

 

Don't forget that at the time of TPM the Republic didn't yet have an army. They did send a couple Jedi Knights, though, who ultimately helped resolve the conflict. So technically the Republic did participate in the battles. At least from a certain point of view.

 

I'm guessing they may have used some of Arndt's characters or situations rather than anything fundamental like plot/dialogue... but who knows?

 

I posted something similar in the other thread. My suspicion is that they stuck with some of the broad plot points that Arndt had developed - super weapons or search for Luke - and that he's getting credit for some of the more general ideas he contributed.

 

So did they give Michael that credit out of respect or out of the fact they really did use some of the treatments? That's the question. Reguardless, I'm happy Michael got his credit, he contributed some time to the project. As for George, Michael and Rian creating the Post-Jedi landscape, that's good to hear.

 

they don't give credit out of "respect". they have to give credit if credit is due. in some cases they don't give credit that should have been given. so it's definitely for work used.

 

Had Lucasfilm/Disney said "forget the last 30 years - nothing much happened, there was peace after ep 6," you wouldn't need to contrive some complex Aftermath size backstory. I accept some SW fans, particularly those that love the EU material, would be less than warm to the idea of 30 years of peace but it does simplify the backstory. No need to reinvent decades of history. And why does every SW fan assume there wasn't peace? It's just as valid a scenario as 30 years of endless conflict with neither side able to administer the final knockout blow.

For every person arguing that the FO should continue the Imperial fight 30 years on (and that has to necessitate contrived backstory plots - hence why many SW fans have disliked Aftermath!) you could argue starting ep 7 with peace is the stronger, more dramatic opening. Had Abrams/Kasdan started ep 7 with peace - no Empire, gone for over thirty years - then when you bring them back (in diminished form, no point bringing them back all strong!) it's a surprise. The heroes natural reaction is

"No, that's impossible, the Empire was destroyed, gone forever!"

This would have been a classic 'misdirection' opening to ep 7. The heroes can't and don't believe the Empire is back. The Imperial attack on their weapon's base is done by non-Imperial ships - this is part of the misdirection. And later on, when the Empire does reveal itself, it's a real "oh, no!" moment for the heroes.

If the FO has been around for a while, no mystery. No surprise element.

I would love to know what George Lucas thinks of my idea. I think it has or had considerable potential. Perhaps more so than the FO around for some time.

The bottom line is you only get to do ep 7 once. There's only one chance to do ep 7 right and to respect the ending of ep 6. I accept most fans don't care if the Empire or FO has been around for 10 years, 20 years or even 30 years! But if George Lucas spent his early adult life making a story about some vast space Empire ruling the galaxy, and in the third film of that trilogy the heroes destroy it, don't you think someone involved in the long awaited sequel (ep 7) should have have said:

"Hold on a second, the ending of ep 6 did draw closure to the saga. Let's not dismiss it so quickly. Let's think about how we start ep 7. Perhaps peace is the logical starting point and then that peace is threatened by the Imperial Revival? We can still keep much of the visual look of the original trilogy, let's not radically reinvent the SW universe, but let's respect George Lucas' ending, not reinvent it as merely a battle in a larger war."

 

You must find the course of actual history very frustrating.