ST The Knights of Ren

I still highly doubt Snoke had any past ties to the KOR before coming onto the scene. My guess is Kylo became associated with him just due to his great power with the force.

 

Ok, I think it's time to chime in with some Knights of Ren speculation.

I'm guessing that the Knights of Ren are a new order that got started some time after Endor, and that they have no connection whatsoever to the Sith.

The last trailer suggests that the Jedi have basically been reduced to legends. But if the Jedi Order, made up of thousands of Knights who served as deputized agents of the galactic government for the last thousand years,became mere legends, then just imagine what must have happened to the Sith, who were always a shadowy, secret organization with virtually no public profile.

For anyone who revered the Sith and really knew anything about them, Palpatine would have been a much more likely figure of hero-worship. But of course, Palpatine's identity as Darth Sidious was not something widely known. Few knew anything at all, about the Sith, and most of those who did know something believed it was Vader who was The Dark Lord.

In fact, even Vader's status as a Sith Lord may not have been that widely known. The word "Sith" never appears in the OT films. Most may have simply thought of him as the last of the Jedi, the one who remained loyal when the rest of the Order attempted to seize control of the Senate. In the OT, the Force was largely disregarded, and the only thing even close to a public face that it had was Vader.

So now, put yourself in the position of a group of Force-sensitive beings who are beginning to discover the power they possess in a post-Endor galaxy. If Luke was out of the picture for some reason, then it seems natural that they would try to emulate Vader, because Vader would have been pretty much the only role model available.

So I believe that the Knights of Ren are a group of largely self-taught Force-sensitives who are emulating Vader but who don't actually know that much about him. They may have never even heard of the Sith. And this would likely present problems.

If the Knights of Ren don't really know anything about the Sith, then they don't know the Rule of Two. It's not that they have made a conscious decision to reject this Sith teaching, it's that they don't even know that it is a teaching. However, as the Knights of Ren grow stronger and more ambitious, they will turn on each other, just as the first Sith did. However, perhaps one of them (Kylo, naturally) will be wise enough and powerful enough to destroy the others and become THE Knight of Ren.

In other words, the Knights of Ren may turn out to be a kind of retelling of the basic story of Darth Bane and the origin of the Sith ... taking things full circle as history threatens to repeat itself.

 

Is the Knights of Ren scene a flashback? If so, do you think the other 6 are dead? Maybe Luke killed them all and spared Kylo because he is his uncle?
Or, maybe the leader of them is not Kylo. Maybe Kylo was a young boy and saw the Knights of Ren massacre a load of Jedi and then the Knights of Ren captured Kylo.
Later, after turning to the darkside, Kylo emulates this former leader, dressing like him and using his lightsabre. Is it possible he thinks this is Vader?
If Kylo is Han and Leia's son I am thinking that he was at one stage a Padawan of Luke. At some point he was captured. I don't think he would have just turned to the darkside at random. Snoke is behind it I think. He turned him and filled his head with lies and deceit.

 

I like all of this, and even fits in with what JJ said, that the Sith Order is completely gone after Jedi. So there would be no one to teach them the proper ways of Sith-doings and such, and possibly no teachings of any kind left behind ( depending on if Palpatine had any Holocrons or such. Wonder if they exist in the new canon now? ).

 

If Snoke is some ancient Sith that would solve the issue about the Sith ways being handed down. I think he would pre-date the rule of 2 stuff if he is some ancient baddie however.

 

Nice

 

Slightly different angle of the Trailer shots from the Wired article. I'm guessing people already commented on this, but this is the first time I noticed the red lights on those blade weapons - do we think that means they can go up against a lightsaber like the magna guard staffs (minus the purple energy glow maybe?).

 

Love that shot.

 

It's stunning.

I tell you what, regardless of whether it's a flashback or not, if we see the fierce battle that led to that aftermath? It's going to be awesome and is exactly the kind of tantalising hint at a history and galaxy just out of reach that JJ is talking about in the Wired article. Stuff like this is going to be the clone wars for fans of the movie I think.

 

we've seen the red lights.

 

Yeah, I would have been amazed if no one had. I only just noticed the robot arm as well. Anyway, nice "new" pic.

 

I am either seeing Nazghul or an impromptu meeting of the Darth Vader fan club (club president Kylo front and centre)

 

Wow, just did some research on what was in the early drafts of the original Star Wars. Just as they're reusing the early Ralph McQuarrie concepts, I think the Knights of Ren are a throwback to those early drafts of the original film. In the second draft, for example, the Emperor had many Sith Knights (the term "Lord" and the Rule of Two did not exist), including Darth Vader and even Valorum at an earlier point. The Sith Knights in this early version were more like pirates and mercenaries which served as bodyguards for the Emperor, who was also quite different from the final form we got on film. What's interesting is that the Sith Knights were not sword wielders, except for a character named Darklighter (the name was later used for Biggs), who was a former Jedi who turned to the dark side. Anyone seeing the parallels with the Knights of Ren and Kylo Ren? The Emperor in this version was more like a medieval king with knights, or an actual emperor of feudal Japan with samurai bodyguards. His goal, above all else, was the eradication of the Jedi, much like the final version of the Emperor/Sidious. In the later drafts, the Emperor took a backseat to the Sith Knights, and was more of a pretentious figurehead than anything else. Obviously this aspect of the character was incorporated in Palpatine's political alter ego. However, I have a feeling it won't be used in the ST.

Taking all this into consideration, this is my prediction as to what the Knights of Ren are: an order of dark side Force users, trained by Snoke to be his personal security detail and minions. Aside from Snoke, the only other member to use a lightsaber will be Kylo Ren, who's the only former Jedi among their ranks (he's almost certainly Han and Leia's son who was trained at Luke's academy alongside Rey). The others will use weapons more suited for bounty hunters and mercenaries, which is what we see in the trailers. However, despite that, they will still be effective villains capable of fighting Jedi and other Force users.

So what does this mean for Snoke himself? Well, in the early drafts, Darklighter trained a band of pirates or commandos in the ways of the dark side so that they could be the bodyguards of the Emperor who shared Darklighter's goal of killing off the Jedi. Obviously Kylo Ren didn't train the Knights of Ren (JJ Abrams says he joined them), so this must mean that Snoke trained them, and turned Kylo Ren to the dark side. Therefore, Snoke could be an incarnation of the original Emperor character and Darklighter combined, which means he could have been a former Jedi who turned to the dark side. Regardless, I see him being a powerful figure who may have been good at one point, which would fit with Andy Serkis' statement about the character having "been through some stuff". Also, I think Snoke is more associated with the Knights of Ren, and not so much the First Order. The Knights/Snoke might be simply allied with the First Order, who's actual leaders are General Hux and Captain Phasma.

 

Ha, good timing. Mungo Baobab just posted along these lines in the MVS thread. Will paste in here. Hang on...

ORIGINAL

LUKE
Because a terrible thing happened.
During one of his lessons a young
PADAWAN-JEDI, a boy named Darklighter,
came to know the evil half of the
force, and fell victim to the spell
of the dreaded Bogan. He ran away
from his instructor and taught the
evil ways of the Bogan Force to a
clan of Sith pirates, who then
spread untold misery throughout
the systems. They became the per-
sonal bodyguards of the Emperor.
The Jedi were hunted down by these
deadly Sith knights. With every
Jedi death, contact with the Ashla
grows weaker, and the force of the
Bogan grows more powerful.

WITH TFA REFS

One young PADAWAN, a boy named SOLO,came to know the evil half of the force, and fell victim to the spell of the dreaded Dark side.

Obsessed with the legacy of his grandfather - the SITH LORD DARTH VADER - young Solo turned away from his uncle's teachings and disappeared into the vastness of the Beyond.

Taking the mantle of KYLO REN, and driven by destiny, the young warrior taught the ways of the Dark Side to a merciless clan of pirates who then spread untold misery throughout the systems.

These KNIGHTS of REN became the personal bodyguards of SUPREME LEADER SNOKE, striking like a bolt from the void and hunting down MASTER SKYWALKER's fledgling Jedi order.

With every Jedi death, contact with the Light grows weaker, and the Dark Side grows more powerful.

 

Dear lord. I had totally forgotten about the evil powers of the BOGAN force. As an Aussie, this is the only image conjured up ...

 

The circle of life applies to Sith as well... Great theory, it does not involve some unbelievable storytelling contraption (Sith-royalty lineage, Sith-clone, etc) or retconning.

I have a feeling not everything will be spelled out for us, and some questions will be left unanswered, so we can fill in the gaps ourselves and also future movies can build up on it/add something new.

 

All this sounds very similar to Darth Krayt and his views on the SIth order.

Could Snoke be a character modeled in the likes of Krayt?

 

Some of those masks look very "Mandalorian" in that shot

 

I'd say that it was less of a battle and more of a massacre judging by the bodies lying all around them.

Whatever/whoever the Knights of Ren are, it just adds to the wonderful and mounting torrent of speculation and debate surrounding TFA. There are so many things to uncover during this movie and the subsequent trilogy and that can only help the overall narrative. One of the major flaws of the PT trilogy was that much of it was all more or less mapped out therefore there were no great surprises or twists. As much as we are all desperate to find out every last peice of information about TFA, 99.99% of us will be heading into the first screening on the 17/18th with no idea who Rey and Kylo are, who Snoke is and what he looks like, where Luke is and what happened to him, who has Force sensibilities etc. etc.... Isn't it bloody wonderful!

 

It's fantastic. This a great time to be a fan.

 

"Rian has asked for a couple things here and there that he needs for his story... JJ Abrams

One of those characters pictured above may be your Episode VIII villain guys.

 

If you think about it, the Jedi were doing more to keep order in the galaxy than being mediators and security for the senate. They were searching the galaxy for Force Sensitive people and taking them to train them in avoiding the Darkside. The Jedi were not reproducing themselves from within( with the exception of Anakin and a few other rule breakers ), they weren't bearing children of their own because they weren't permitted to have families. That means that in the GFFA there are going to continue to be at least a small contingent of beings born with Force abilities that and then left to figure them out on their own.
It makes perfect sense for a portion of these individuals to pursue the temptation of the Darkside- even banding together into gangs with other Darkside potentials they encounter. The group would be very, very aggressive and pirate like; however, a fully trained and experienced Darkside user from The Beyond would be able to move in and become their new "Alpha". Of course every member of this group would constantly be looking for ways to increase their own knowledge/ power to move up in the pecking order. I think in this way their relic hunting might not be their primary mission from Snoke, but rather something they do on their own- and as secretly as possible. Just like Vader was trying to lure Luke without Palps knowing, I think each Knight of Ren is trying to become as powerful as the can by obtaining any Force related relic they can find- be the relic from the Jedi or Sith. So that they can study it at length and learn its secrets. Kylo is perhaps the golden boy of this group who somehow makes a crude Lightsaber without any instruction. Snoke might be wary of Kylo's potential, but I think Snoke's focus is on higher goals- and I'm hoping they go beyond just establishing his own rule over the GFFA. If we have canon material that talks about Palps being bored with ruling and wanting to reshape reality, then Snoke needs to be pursuing at least an equally lofty goal.

 

Hmmm. Of all the pics from the new EW gallery, the one we think is of the KoR has no description to go with it. Was this confirmed elsewhere by EW?

Edit: Thanks DarthTalgus. Not sure why that didn't show up for me.

 

Haha. Is that Eric Bana?