CT Did you imagine Vader to be a child-killer? (Pre-PT)

GL will eventually have the Younglings attack first, thereby forcing Vader to defend himself.

Darth Vader: "Come with me to safety!"
Youngling Thug: "Screw you, old man!"
Gang of Younglings attack Darth Vader without provocation.
Darth Vader: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
Lord Vader bellows his reticence before reluctantly defending his life.

 

This is a good question. Of course, his part in the destruction of Alderaan certainly makes him responsible for the slaughter of children. But in a way, to be very cynical, they were collateral damage. In the original trilogy, Vader seemed to me as a military man, with a military code of conduct. Civilians may be used as means to an end, but murdering civilians/children for no reason is not a part of this incarnation of Vader.
Now, the argument may be... Are the younglins innocent "civilians" because of their age, or are they a legit military target? And more interesting, when they were executed, were they a legit target? They were indoctrinated into a Jedi-worldview, but they weren't any threat to anyone without their masters, etc.

So, no, I did not see Vader as a child killer in the originals. And I'm ambivalent about seeing him as one now. Guess it depends on the point of view...

 

Well,prior to the PT I just assumed all Jedi trainees were teenaged or older. It never really occurred to me there would be 7 year olds he had to hunt down and kill as well.

 

It is intensely frightening and disturbing to imagine him as a child murderer. I honestly did not imagine him being like that when I viewed the original trilogy from age twelve to age nineteen. But as a kid, when I was nine and seeing the films for the first time, I did think that Vader was horrifying and that he could kill anyone who got in his way. I didn't specifically compute that he would kill kids, but I didn't think he was above it.

I am not against Lucas's decision to depict him that way. I think the lead-up to that could have been better written, but that's another story. I don't think he relishes it, obviously. Darth Maul killed children in TCW, and I imagine he had no problem with it.

I can imagine Darth Vader piloting his fighter and blowing up ships with women, men, and children on it, and I can imagine him ordering his Star Destroyer to blow up ships with families on them. He's cold and single-minded. Talk about a dangerous man... The most dangerous people are often broken and desensitized.

 

We also have to remember he had already killed all the the Sandpeople's children. ("Sandchildren?") So it's something he was already accustomed to doing when the time came to kill all the Temple Younglings.

 

Yes, I always imagined he killed many, many children. The Empire were child killers in Episode IV, so obviously. And if there were any Rebel kids, they would have bombed them to death too. All Empires kill many, many, many children, especially Imperial lapdogs. All Empires have people they hire that personally kill children, up close, one on one, by cutting, shooting, injecting, gassing or drugging. Not just collateral damage. And that's not the half of it. To gain power, you must kill many children. The slaughter of the incorruptible is the only way for territorial domination.

 

I saw the Prequels before the Originals, so Vader killing Younglings was pretty much the first I saw of him.

Also, I think that from Darth Vader's point of view, killing the Younglings would have made sense. They were trained in the ways of the Force (even just a little bit) and fully indoctrinated by the Jedi. They could have became a threath to the Emperor. He had to get rid of the children.

To quote Darth Sidious from Season 2 of Star Wars: The Clone Wars:
'Among the children of the Jedi, there are no innocents.'
I think that's how Vader saw it as well.

 

Vader murdering children is way off for me. I don't dispute part of his role as a Sith Lord is Leading assaults and ordering massacres, but in the star wars movie-verse it just doesn't sit right.

His character arc is way to steep. He turns, without any kind of real inner turmoil. Has no problem killing Jedi (most likely his friends) and then turns on a bunch of kids?

Novels can obviously deal with this in more depth. Fans of this kind of storytelling can feel the intensity of characters I only see on screen, but what I do see is suspect at best.

I always saw Anakin as a Jedi who wasn't in control of his own abilities, they would come in waves and bursts depending on his unstable emotional state. His abilities were wild, and Sidious couldn't believe his luck when he sensed this. Manipulate his mind and control his abilities...seduce him to the dark side!

I can see Vader in the suit murdering anything that gets in his way. I see the Emperor constantly in his mind, manipulating any kind of positive feelings he has...his messed up psyche having it's strings pulled. This Vader, I believe can murder children, he doesn't feel humanity or have a sense of morality. He's a Pitbull to be let off his leash.

This is never portrayed in any kind of relatable way in the films, he becomes Darth Vader the child-killer within moments...just terrible. The manipulation, confrontation, then the transformation of his physical form would have served better in getting to know his new twisted state of mind...not rushing him into being a murderer of children.

To be explored in the novels, yes...To be a part of the movies...NOOOOOO!!!

 

Technically Vader didn't kill those kids. Nope. That was good old Anakin Childkiller, er, I mean Skywalker.

 

Oh, there was turmoil in Anakin. It was there throughout. You see it in his argument with Obi-wan about spying on Palpatine. When talking to Palpatine at the Galaxies theater. In Palpatine's office. When he tells Mace the truth and then when he goes back to Palpatine's office. But when he went to kill the Younglings, he had already decided that what he wanted was more important than anything else. All other priorities were ascended.

 

If I found out my Uncle didn't trust me, or a friend had deceived me, especially on the same day I discovered my girlfriend was terminally ill...wouldn't make me wanna go kill kids!? That's all I'm sayin.

 

Well, this is not all one day. Palpatine has been planting the seeds for this for thirteen years. We already know in TPM he has attachment issues and AOTC showed us the end result of all that. AOTC also established that Anakin was willing to become the most powerful Jedi ever, in order to protect his loved ones and himself. He vows to do this and when ROTS starts, we see him again reiterate that he wants that power and will do whatever it takes to get it. Anakin is clearly divided here. He wants to be a Jedi still, but he also wants to keep his happiness alive by keeping Padme alive. But he's also frustrated with how he's been treated lately and being caught in the middle like he is.

When he goes to the Temple, he is told that he has to not hesitate or otherwise, he will never get what he wants. He has to free himself of the shackles of his old life and embrace the path before him. He's already screwed up and knows that there is no going back, there is only going forward.

 

We see Anakin as a kid who leaves his mother. He isn't torn away from her. He decides to leave.
Jump to him as a rebellious teenager, just like every other kid I know. Falls in love. Finds his mother dead...gets angry. Decides to kill a bunch of people.
Then all of a sudden he's a war hero...still has the mentality of a child. Has a dream his wife is gonna die and is turned to the darkside through the belief he can prevent something from happening that hasn't even happened yet? Then kills a bunch of kids minutes later!

Go for the progressive subtlety, or the big kick in the ass moment... not the frustratingly,confusing emo version.

 

Technically Vader did kill those kids. He'd been given the name Darth Vader by that point. "Darth Vader" isn't the costume/life support suit.

 

Yes Vader did kill the Younglings, but it was Anakin that killed the Sand Children.

 

I'll be honest, one of the things that puzzles me is how could anyone have failed to realize upon viewing the OT that Vader would, if not directly have killed children, at least have helped. Obi-Wan says in ANH that Vader "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights" (which, already there we have the implication of genocide). And then in TESB, Yoda says that Luke is too old to begin the training. But Luke is still a young man, in his early twenties. Which pretty much confirms to me that Jedi must have been starting their training as young teenagers (maybe around 13) at the absolute latest. And given that Vader helped the Empire hunt down the Jedi, well, it doesn't take much to put two and two together.

Him helping to intimidate Leia and being complicit in Alderaan's destruction (in which millions of civilian Imperial children were killed) shows that he has no compunction about children dying to achieve Imperial ends.

In terms of the PT, I think there's something sadly ironic about it -- Anakin, as a 9 year old child, was frequently put in mortal danger to amuse and financially support his master (even if it killed his mother) during podraces. The fact that he was a child and could be brutally killed was utterly irrelevant -- he was a means to an end. There's something poetic, too, that the only person to ever address Anakin as "Master Skywalker" is a young boy (who looks remarkably like little Anakin) that Anakin then brutally murders.

 

He blew up an entire planet in the original movie. So yeah, I'd say I imagined him as a child killer from the get go

 

Tarkin wanted the planet destroyed. The Death Star gunner is the one who actually destroyed the planet.

 

A Nuremberg defense? He was complicit. He could have stopped it--he was by far the most powerful individual aboard the Death Star. He interrogated and tortured her for the information. When she was unwilling to provide credible intel, he allowed Tarkin to make the order. He is just as culpable as Tarkin.

 

He blew up an entire planet in the original movie.
That's what you said.
Should have said your last post from the get-go.

 

There is no distinction. It is the same level of culpability. He was in command, it happened. The fact that his hand was not literally on the trigger is irrelevant.

 

Did you imagine Vader to be a child-killer? (Pre-PT)

There is no evidence in the films to suggest this.

Anakin Killed the young Tusken Raiders, when he was a Jedi though

 

How do they not have an equal level of evidence?

We don't directly see either, but they're strongly implied to have both happened, and are both later referenced in dialogue.

How can you accept one but not the other?

 

Its Darth Vader so yeah I could see it.