ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VII

He was an effective villain and portrayed very well by Adam Driver, but he needed more development. Which I suspect he'll get much more of in Episodes 8 and 9, but they should've done some more here as well. Really liked his design and lightsaber, and thought he came off as very menacing and even unnerving in parts.

 

The Anakin Skywalker offspring named "Ben" and one of that offspring turning to the dark side could be seen as lifts from the EU, but I prefer to think of it more as acknowledgement. At the very least, the name "Ben" seems to be a nod. The fact he went to the dark side, not so much because if anybody was going to write a sequel to "return of the jedi" probably at one point, they'd stumble into "Han & Leia's kid goes to the dark side." The EU simply got there first. But it doesn't mean that only the EU could do it or the filmmakers were simply closed off to that road because the EU did it. It's a great story point in the storyline of the next generation, be it if the kids name is Jacen or Ben.

 

Calling Kylo Ren a 'rip-off' of the EU characters of Jacen/Caedus and Ben Skywalker strikes me as being very cynical, and not particularly accurate, since Kylo's characterization is decidedly different from either of those characters. For one thing, he's obviously mentally unhinged (something that neither Ben or Jacen were), and is very like Anakin (especially AotC Anakin) in personality (which is also something that neither Ben or Jacen were).

 

I think then, that this is where we differ. Since I didn't know (or give a toss about) the above, none of this bothered me, tbh.

I think that they *have* thrown all of the EU fans under a proverbial train and I do genuinely feel very sorry for people who see EU characters that they like (like Jacen) get dissolved by the new film canon, but honestly, if you want to get any enjoyment from the future storytelling, it is better to just let it go .. or go and find another myth, because down this path, there will be undoubtedly many more instances of stuff from the EU being co-opted but in ways that you may not like.

 

While I think you can draw similarities between the EU Solo Sith Offspring and Kylo Ren / Ben Solo, there're really just roundabout general plot themes & broad strokes character arc. That pretty much any writer would arrive at. Ain't no way Abrams or Kassdan slapped down a 9 novels of "Legacy of the Force" on the table and hollered "Let's rip this off and never acknowledge it!"

Calling that "OMG, TFA just ripped off the EU, DAHHH!!" seems like more alarmist rhetoric from a particularly vocal section of "Bring Back Legends" fans.

 

snoke told hux to get kylo and get off world.

 

I avidly read the old EU, particularly the NJO, and was intimately familiar with Jacen's personality and characterization in particular, and there's very little that he has in common with Kylo characterizationally other than that they're both Solo offspring who embrace the Dark Side.

 

I am very curious to know what Leia and Han thought about Ben being taught. And, for that reason, why didn't Leia go with Ben to learn/teach (I'm presuming she did not have major evolvement with Luke and Ben at the school extrapolating from the film, but it is certainly possible that she was more involved with Luke's school than what I presume).

I would hope Han post-RotJ would be more-encouraging of a force-sensitive child learning to be a Jedi from his friend Luke. I can see Solo trying to teach Ben about the "ways of the world," piloting, how to get by in the underworld, etc., trying to pass on some of what he feels he can offer to his son. Which Ben may have thought way beneath him. There are really a lot of ways this could go.

 

There was a line in the film from Leia about how both she and Han went back to their old ways. For her that's leading the rebellion (Resistance). She's got no time for Jedi studies.

 

Woops, repost.

 

I wonder if that means we will get a "broad stroke" Jaina in the form of Rey?

 

It sounds like Leia was hiding a few things about Ben, from Han - she sensed the darkness in him, but was worried that Han's impatience with (presumably any thought of the darkside being something redeemable) would be counterproductive. She sent him away to Luke but it seems that it was too late - the little bugger was already doing things he shouldn't have and Luke couldn't save him.

For 30 years truth be told, I had always assumed that Leia would've been Luke's first pupil and more involved with hsi academy or whatever. I guess that she chose not to follow that path for her own reasons (maybe Han had something to do with it) and that is where the story will stay.

Poor Luke. He has to live with the fact that he made similar mistakes as Obiwan and has to now live with the same consequences as old Ben. I am sure that when he sees Rey, he sees himself from ANH.

 

If there's one EU character who most resembles Rey right now, even in "broad strokes", it's Zekk, not Jaina... especially since Rey is decidedly, demonstrably, and unequivocally not a Solo.

Regarding Leia, she chose politics with the New Republic and later sustained military service with the Resistance over the Jedi lifestyle because those things were already familiar to her.

 

Very interesting...do you have a link to that forceback scene.

The events you described are pretty fascinating....but it does make you wonder how/why he made no mention at all during the movie of recognizing her.

 

Has Kylo Ren ever been tested by a REAL Jedi? Like....uh, Luke? No. So he's pretty much a wanna be nobody in Vader-clothes. Can't wait to see what they do with this creep.

 

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Glad I'm not the only one who saw that! I mean at least in AOtC when Anakin lost his temper it was ! somewhat justified ( he was angry at the Tuskens because they killed his mother. I think any person would be angry at someone if they murdered their loved one.) and B. angry at himself for failing as a Jedi.

 

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Nothing, and I stress NOTHING, about Anakin was believable so that's not the wisest of comparisons.

The way Kylo was depicted in TFA is the way Anakin SHOULD have been depicted in the prequels.

Better late than never. The bottom line is that Skywalker gene is unstable and contains radical susceptibility to both light and dark....in many ways mirroring real life. I thought they absolutely nailed Kylo and his storyline is going to be a fascinating one.

 

Other Klyo Ren fact - he has, like, a personalized ash-tray for his helmet! Seriously, what was up with that? Also I had the feeling it was, like, magnetized to it or something when he dropped it.

I guess, if anything, RIP Kylo Ren's helmet. Probably fell off the edge of the bridge with no railing during the patricide and Chewie shooting a hole in him all.

 

He really is just a Vader wannabe. Using a voice altering mask even though he doesn't have to. And then the temper tantrums he keeps having. A badass, he is not. Darth Maul or Dooku could kick this guy's butt.

 

The temper tantrums where funny though! Like when he begins smashing the hell outta that control panel and those two troopers started backing away slowly.
It's like they're thinking uh oh the boss is in a bad mood. Better ask him for that promotion later.

 

I have come around on Kylo, but I can understand why someone wouldn't like him either. He murdered his dad in a cowardly fashion and spouts heavy-handed lines like feeling torn inside or feeling so much pain in true Anakin-emo fashion. I didn't think he was well written in his confrontation with dad, less is more sometimes. The whole "help me" exchange was genius however.

As far as Ren-scenes go, I far prefer his unmasking scene or his talk to Vader, was well as the bitch fights between Hux and him. There's much to like but a little to dislike.

 

The character design is great. The character himself is not. He is definitely a B-rate Darth Vader in terms of composure, skill and authority. At least the movie is self aware with that and just tells the audience what we already know - he is NOT quite up to the level of Darth Vader at this point. Perhaps in the future he'll grow but I was really hoping he'd die and we'd get something new for Episode 8...

 

When Hux walked in on the unmasked Ren while he was talking to Snoke, it looked like he nearly pissed himself cause he would be seen without his mask on, while prior earlier on Hux looked scared of Ren when he had the mask on and had a Vader like moment of dialogue. Without the mask, he seems to lose his Dark Side composure . There is some tension present like between Ren and Hux with both vying for the Leader's affection. Adam Driver does not have an imitating face or voice which further makes him a lackluster villain. Driver is a little worse than Hayden as he made his Anakin look great by comparison. Kylo basically has one look to him unlike Hayden, this neutral & dumbfounded look. Hux too seemed like he was about cry after delivering his speech. If you notice there is a lack of old people in the First Order while the Resistance seems to have quite a few. Kylo's fear and awe of Rey after he gets sliced across his face also showed he lacked the "Sith Eyes", so there is no inner darkness to him which in turn does not seem to be a natural vessel but rather someone forcing himself to be bad when he really isnt which is how he is in the entire movie. He kills his dad hoping it would give him greater power yet it did nothing, probably the opposite. Seems like a mixed bag of writing translated to a mixed bag movie and characters.

 

Good observation that the mask gives him a sense of authority and security. He may feel closer to Vader when he wears it, as if his grandfather's spirit is flowing through his veins.

But he is A LOT better than Hayden.

Maybe he goes lightside and helps the heroes fight Benicio del Toro's character.