PT The history of midi-chlorians and The Force in the Star Wars universe

But why? Why is Luke the last hope, as opposed to any of the uncounted hordes of people out there in the galaxy, many of whom would have grievances against the Empire, any of whom could be trained to use a glow-stick and take up arms against the bad guys? What makes Luke different? What is the basis of his "importance", to use Vader's words? Why is he considered a serious threat to the Emperor by virtue of merely existing, as is made clear in both TESB and ROTJ?

While at the same time explaining that the Force runs strongly in his family. Here's the place where Luke has a perfect opportunity to explain to Leia that the members of the Skywalker bloodline are no different from anyone else where the Force is concerned... yet he does the exact opposite. Something in no way necessary to accomplish the simple task of telling someone that she is your sister.

Who made that argument?

 

How about the fact that he's Vader's son, and therefore undermines Vader's loyalty. Luke was never a direct thread to the Emperor in terms of his power. The Emperor overpowered Luke very easily. The Emperor was defeated by Vader's love for his son, not because Luke has a high number of Force bugs in his blood.

 

"He could destroy us" "The Force is strong with him".


Seemed to me that, at least in terms of potential, Luke's power was a factor in his concern.

 

Any fully trained Jedi would be a threat, but the films clearly showed, that the real threat was Luke's parentage, not his exceptional powers. Luke was clearly no match for the Emperor.

 

Palpatine didn't seem too concerned about that either in TESB or at the end of ROTJ, oddly enough.

After he threw away his lightsaber, that is. Mace would not have approved. And Luke at some point in his development would have had the potential to destroy the Emperor, by Palpatine's own admission.

If that's true, they should have been training random people instead of insisting that Luke and Leia were the last hope.

 

Really, then why replace Vader with Luke, if his loyalty was not in question? The Emperor had too much faith in Vader, but he did realise Vader was conflicted: "I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear Lord Vader?".

 

Vader is damaged goods.

 

Because as Lucas said, Luke was to be what Vader should have been. It wasn't about loyalty, since Luke wouldn't be loyal to Palpatine since he had been fighting him for years and hated the Empire before he knew that hate was wrong. Vader even says, "If he could be turned, he could be a powerful asset."

Because the scientific function was only introduced by Lucas to explain to the audience why Anakin was unique. Science fiction isn't all about real world science in a fictional setting. That's why Lucas said that there would be those who trashed ANH because of "2001", which was more of the traditional science fiction that had a basis in the real world. He wanted the romantic aspect which is science that has some basis, but don't think too hard about it, because it is junk science.

 

That's really the heart of the issue. The midi-chlorians, the virgin birth, the Chosen One are all symptoms of a problem that GL faced while writing the PT, that can be summed up by this analogy:

Superman is special on earth, but how do you make superman stand out on Krypton?

 

It's very simple with Superman, you go with the heart of the character over the powers. It was the subject of the 2009-2010 storyline, "New Krypton"/"World Of New Krypton". Clark is the first Kryptonian to live among humans and to be raised as one, before spending a year among his people on New Krypton. He didn't believe in the guild, caste system that Kryptonian society had long ago adopted. He was capable of showing great compassion towards everyone, whereas others among his people couldn't. He had years to master his powers, whereas everyone else was still trying to adapt to them. He used his years of experience and his reputation as Superman to end a hostage situation peacefully and to negotiate a truce with the Saturnians and the Thanagarians, who had issues with Krypton when it was a star empire.

In "Man Of Steel", you have Superman as the first Kryptonian in many long generations to be born naturally, and thus have a choice as to who he could be. Whereas everyone else had their futures mapped out by the Ruling Council and the Codex. Zod was bred and raised to be a soldier who protected Krypton at all cost and to ensure its legacy. Clark was just raised to figure out who he wanted to be with his powers and to do what was right, when the time came. He can choose to be Earth's protector or not. Zod had no choice but to be a soldier.

 

^^ Sounds similar to both Anakin and Luke since they didn't fit in with the Jedi dogma.

 

However, a high midi count always being passed on likewise has problems.

First, Anakin. If we just go with just the OT and say it was genes/biology that made him strong in the Force.
Then if he had any siblings, they would be just as strong in the Force as he was.
Enter Owen or Beru. Luke calls them Aunt and Uncle and they clearly knew Anakin. So either Owen was Anakin's brother or Beru was his his sister. So either Owen or Beru would be as strong in the Force as Anakin.

Then we have all other Jedi. If any of them had any siblings, brother or sister or if those siblings had any children. They would be a s strong in the Force as these specific Jedi's were. So if Obi-Wan had any siblings, they would have the same Force strength as he did.
So Yoda and Obi-Wan would have loads of possible candidates.

The third problem is that IF a high midi count is always passed on, then this would slowly increase the average midi count in the whole galaxy. If Anakin had two children and both had his high count and each of his children had two children each and so on. Then after 1000 years you would have over one billion people with his high count.

If we instead go with the idea that the Skywalker line was the special case. There Force strength was very common but no one knew why. If we add to this that Palpatine's hold over Vader might weaken because of his children. And if we have Anakin Skywalker as a famous Jedi and hero of the Clone Wars then a child of his might ride on that name. This person could then serve as a rallying point for others. It is pretty common in sagas that having a famous name can get attention.
Then that would serve as an explanation as to why Palpatine was worried about Anakin's offspring.

Interestingly, in the RotJ script, Owen is made into Obi-Wan's brother and so neither he nor Beru was related to Anakin. If the idea was that the Skywalker line was special, then this change makes some sense as it makes them not Skywalkers.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

In any case, midi-chlorians don't make the Force any more or less elitist than what was already established in the OT. The prequels don't say anything about a being having to posses a certain amount of midi-chlorians to be Force sensitive. It's heavily implied and pretty obvious that every living thing has midi-chlorians, but that a higher amount seems to give you more potential to tap into the Force.

 

It's pretty much stated outright.

 

I don't feel like having midi-chlorians in the prequels is a bad thing. In my opinion they do NOT give the host force powers, rather they feed on the hosts radiating excess force energy that the host is not using anyway, just as force crystals do - the more attuned to the force you are, the more midi-chlorians you attract. They are just a useful tool for measuring ones force potential, having no effect on the users abilities.

(Dont remember the exact words but in KOTOR 2 Darth Traya said something along these lines)
"Picture the force user like a bucket and the force like flowing water, when the bucket gets full it spills the water."

This could also confirm that no one can have an unlimited amount of force inside them, and that there is something limiting the users force potential, Maybe with the exception of Darth Nihilus.

That is what the midi-chlorians and the force crystals collect. The more you spill the more midi-chlorians you attract.

Maybe i'm just reading too much into this, but that is what i choose to believe

Darth Bane book series SPOILER follows

Now, that being said. There are beings SIMILAR to the midi-chlorians. I'm talking about the Orbalisks. The ones that Darth Bane had on him after visiting the tomb of Freedon Nadd on Dxun and discovering his holocron.

Essentially, they were big parasites that fed on the hosts force energy and in turn they pumped the hosts body full of chemicals that made them incredibly fast and strong and gave them incredible regeneration abilities, plus they doubled as armor, that not even a lightsaber could penetrate (similar to cortosis), it's only weakness being small gaps that left some of the hosts body unprotected.The downside being the endless pain and scarring that came with it. Plus it was harder to focus the force while under the influence of the chemicals, and if the special protective helmet was not worn the parasites would expand on to the users face, suffocating them.

 

Right. That's why when Lucas did the PT, he turned Owen into Anakin's step brother.

Lucas only said that when it came to twins, then they'd have the same connection in the Force to each other and in turn to their father. The implication is that the counts would vary between siblings. That's why he made them twins, rather than just born two years apart.

"At the center of the movie is a lot of exposition, it's a lot of explaining what has happened, and why things are the way they are. In this particular case, there is a whole issue of Luke's sister, and you know, the fact that they were twins. Which is an element that has to be revealed, which comes in later, in terms of who is the 'other' that was talked about in Empire Strikes Back. And how could that person become as powerful as Luke? Well obviously if they were twins, then if she were trained, then, she has the same abilities as Luke has. That becomes an important issue, especially in terms of resolving all the love triangles."

--George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary.

Which is one reason why Lucas came up with the idea that the Jedi didn't start families intentionally. This also presumes that any child of Luke and Leia might actually have children of their own.

Lucas didn't have a solid backstory for Owen and Beru. He had four different ideas while writing ANH and it's unclear who came up with the fifth backstory for ROTJ. But, it doesn't matter since Lucas changed his mind again. The fifth backstory never made it into ROTJ and Lucas created a variation of the second backstory from the second draft of ANH.

 

"Without the midichlorians, life could not exist... and we would have no knowledge of the Force."
- Qui-Gon, TPM

"But I figured in this movie I could begin to bring out the concept of midichlorians and their job in being sensitive to the Force, and why some people are more susceptible to the Force than others — which is an issue that's in [A New Hope], but you never know why the Force is strong with some people and not strong with other people. What is the device that causes that to happen?" - George Lucas

 

But if the force is just microbial bugs then, do they emit a force wave , or are you just tossing bugs at someone ? Do they generate a substance known as the Force? What makes some midi-chlorians emit dark force, and some light. Is there really any difference? Other than the way the user decides to use the force for good or for evil? Is it all the same "Force" ? What causes dark side corruption then?

They raise so many questions IMO

 

I always find the criticism to the Midis really stupid, it seems that the Original Star Wars fans never had read Frank Herbert Dune series, the spice melange work like the Midis in the Star Wars universe, is a sustenance that give the people that consume them or have them, special powers, I think that there were Lucas get the idea of the midis back in the 70'.

 

Yeah no.

 

Except.... it isn't "an issue that's in [A New Hope]". In fact...unless you decide to make an issue of "The Force runs strong in my family" then it isn't anything that needed addressing. It came off, to me, as little more than a simplistic way of 'proving' Anakin's importance a 'Wow, his Force bacteria count is off the scale ' moment...and ultimately that is all the use that is ever made of them in the movies.

And...Qui-Gon's quote.....what, so midiclorians pre-existed all other microbial life?....so...how did they live before life?

The spice melange is, quite clearly, an hallucinogenic substance, its effects derived from shamanistic rituals and pre-training/programming. The two have absolutely nothing in common.

 

Eco is joking.

Except for the bit about influencing them to stop death.

PALPATINE: "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the Midichlorians to create life … He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying."

Midichlorians were part of the first life forms. Those lifeforms eventually left their world and moved on to other worlds.



The planet where Yoda met with the Priestesses is the planet where life first began and with it, the Midichlorians.

 

Actually no, the spice melange is used to create the Navigators, that only control the ships in the Dune universe, but give them the ability to even see the future, the Bene use the spice to rise their physical and mental abilities, the space guild use for the in the navigators and in themselves for the same reason as the Bene, and of course, and the spice in deep in the Fremen culture, because it in everything that they consume, hell, even their holy water, that is impregnated with spice of a newborn worm, they call it "water of life". I not only fan of Star Wars and Babylon 5, but Dune also.

 

Yeah, the guild Naigators use spice to turn themselves into human navigation computers since all computers and thinking machines are banned in Dune in fear of another AI uprising.

 

That make me remember the Mentat as well, that use spice to increase their mental capacity, without the spice the Navigators would be blind, and there wouldn't be space travel in the Known Universe, destroying all the power system, that why House Artreides rise to power and become the new emperors. The Spice is the like the Midi, without the Midi the Jedi and the Sith would be nothing.