Fanclub <=*=> The New Sith Order =*= Return of the Sith <=*=>... v.5

I'm inclined to believe Snoke is a certain Sith Lord.

 

I like the idea of Snoke as Plagueis.


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And thus Adas, Andeddu and Bane through Palpatine eh...

 

I don't think it possible for any Sith to pass through all those Sith Lords not even Bane. The thing about essence transfer is that the target has a strong enough will to fight the invading force off they loose. Which we can see happening to Bane when he tries to take over Zannah. He may have left a small imprint on her with that being his twitch but I do not seeing him as having overpowered her with essence transfer. And considering the actual spirit of Darth Andeddu was in that holocron when Bane ripped the knowledge from it that shows that even Bane has a will strong enough to forcefully rip it from the Sith lord. Heck and Bane is higher rated then Wyyrlock who made Andeddu look like an absolute chump.

Considering how strong willed most of the ROT Sith were I think it highly unlikely. And considering that both Plagueis was highly intelligent more so then the Sith that came before him. I consider Plagueis having been within the top three most intelligent Sith if not the top. Something that many of them lacked and considering we saw what happened to Tenebrous (Plagueis' master) As with him using Maxichlorines to try and take over his apprentice's body we know he wasn't possessed by any Sith Lords before. All this on top of it has been clarified by the writer that Zannah was herself and that Bane had lost the battle of wills for her body.

Now onto Vitiate. He may have been an extremly powerful Sith, but that power is not naturally his. He is an abomination created through the force and the rituals he used. To drain the life of entire planets is something we've seen Nihlus do without the rituals that Vitiate needed. These two individuals are much more powerful then they should ever have been. But this was through the Force. I would characterize both these characters as Force entities in and of themselves. Though even then I still see them beneath Palpatine in terms of raw power and scale. I've seen the new expansion for SWTOR and have watched it but still have seen nothing that puts Vitiate above Palpatine as of yet. That lightning feat where he was able to attack all the ships killing the pilots was a good one but something Sidious could Replicate.

 

My fellow lords and ladies of the Sith, the time has come for Bael Malvern, otherwise known as RabidBunny, to begin to break the chains of weakness and ignorance. I hereby take him as my apprentice, and confer upon him the name Darth Chamenos, a moniker of his own choosing. He will follow the path of the Sith Assassin - stealth, cunning, and versatility will be his greatest weapons, and he will be equally versed in use of the lightsaber as well as the dark side of the force.

Darth Chamenos... Rise.

I bid you copy and paste the signature of either Darth Dreadwar or myself into your own, center-aligned and edited to reflect your new name and path: Darth Chamenos, Sith Assassin of the New Sith Order.

 

*Bows* I assure you that I will bring honor to both this Order and your own name Master Harestisch. I will cull the weak from out order and complete all tasks that you set before me. Darth_wanderguard

 

Congratulations young Chamenos. I shall watch your career with great interest.

It is implied, but not left ironclad, that it was Adas who was the spellbook spirit who bade Warb Null build the armour (and presumably later possessed the armour), but not Warb Null himself.

I tend to juggle multiple personal canons of varying development at once. Some play loose and light with the rules and have the Force and hyperspace as artificial constructs by the Celestials or Bane = Palpatine or so on, but my dearest and nearest and Legends-completist one...Well, that one, you're already familiar with

Ah, but who said this, Chamenos? Do not trust the word of Darth Andeddu, who would be well motivated to lie in this matter. Sourcebooks may indicate this as well, but its portrayal of transfer essence has a distance limit that we see Palpatine and Vitiate flatly ignore. Palpatine seemed confident he could 'live again' as Luke Skywalker, whose titanic force of will (alongside Leia's and unborn Anakin's) was enough to cut Palpatine off from his power, and of course Vitiate routinely shuttled his essence between Sith bodies. I think a sufficiently powerful Sith entity need not fear losing that battle of wills.

I don't particularly subscribe to 'rating,' which is one thing I liked about TFA; there is no power ladder, anything can and does happen, and specialist powers or qualities can result in surprising outcomes such as Windu's use of Vaapad, or the Darths Nihilus and Sion being undone by the Jedi Exile.

Given that it makes absolutely no sense that a Sith Lord would summon illusions, which are only fatal if you believe in their reality, would also be killed by said illusions, and given the fact that it's outlined he's paranoid to the point of obsession about his immortality, I've long speculated he feigned his demise and retreated into his holocron for some inscrutable purpose even regardless of the Bane idea.

I agree Darth Plagueis and The Tenebrous Way comprise the strongest counters, which is why the theory works better in the context of the new canon, where details of Legend continuity can be played with more loosely.

However, death of the author and all that. What Karpshyn says isn't canon, in Legends or otherwise.

I would disagree with you about Vitiate's power, although I prefer not to get into 'versus' discussions. I would tentatively suggest Nihilus, Vitiate, Abeloth, The Ones and a select few other beings such as the Bedlam Spirits fall into their own 'Force god' category, and that this should not be seen as contradicting the many statements regarding Palpatine being the most powerful Sith, as 1. Power could be interpreted many ways, such as political power. 2. "Most powerful" has been an appellation dubiously given to other Sith Lords as well and 3. Vitiate and Nihilus very much transcended the definition of 'Sith Lord,' one being a mindless embodiment of primitive intention, and the other considering himself beyond the identity of Sith as of KotFE.

On the other hand, Palpatine himself achieved unnatural levels of power through Force draining Byss in a very similar way to Nihilus' hunger and Vitiate's rituals (as well as performing other rituals such as that within Sithisis), so I suspect he too could be viewed as a Force entity by the time of DE. Certainly he spoke of himself in such terms, although whether that's delusions of grandeur or not is difficult to tell.

Speaking of Sithisis, anyone have any thoughts on who these seeming Sith spirits are?



One or two look rather like Andeddu, but perhaps we're looking at more recent Baneite spirits? One idea I came across in fanfiction long ago was that the Baneites ensured the perpetuation of the Sith by, so long as they were struck down in anger, being able to jump into the heads of their killers and infect them with their power. Not full possession, just a voice in the head a la the Valkorion/Outlander dynamic. DoE seemed to actually allow for this to be canon, although sadly DP seems to nix the idea.

But I do like the idea of Sidious being able to consult with and tap into all the power of his RoT forebears, and Plagueis listening in on that conversation about his own demise, no doubt feeling pretty peeved.

 

Now that one mentions it - I wonder if it was possible to create a 'Horcrux' for the Sith - so have several Sith artifacts and talismans that bind your rage, essence and hate and even if you got physically wrecked as long as the artifacts are there as a medium you cannot truly die ... or kinda Sauron style One Ring Power - if Essence Transfer is not preferred or unless you just want to end up as a walking talking corpse full of rage like Darth Sion ...

 

I eagerly look forward to exceeding all your expectations Lord Dreadwar.

Its more then being said it has been shown plenty of times. Beings such as Abeloth have had problems with beings of extreme willpower and controlling them, and she has easily accomplished things that put her above both Sidious and Vitiate. Sidious himself has a problem overcoming strongwilled beings hence one of the main reason he went for clones that were basically kept comatose/preserved as it was an easier way to occupy the body without having to fight against the clones will. Vitiate himself has shown this same weakness as he can not force beings he has inhabited the body of to do what they do not want nor can he outright control their bodies unless they had given into him before. This shows that willpower plays a large role in essence transfer. Something that all the Sith Lords had in spades.

Yes but in TFA they overlook skill needed, training and power level which is needed for such things. For a character to accomplish something he has to show the skill or ability to be able to do it on a regular basis. Something that none of the characters have showed as of yet. Especially with the Mary Sue ways of Rey, and the complete weakness of Kylo. The duels were horrible and just made very little sense such as one seen where they held a lock for quite a long time where in reality such a thing would be impossible even counting in the force. The Force hasn't awakened yet, It looked at its alarm clock and hit snooze before going back to sleep. There were special circumstances involving all three of those characters. Vaapad only worked the way it does for Mace because of his Shatterpoint ability, and his incredible willpower that allows him to not be corrupted. In which he made a super conducting loop feeding off Palpatine's power and using it to amp himself as well as redirecting it back. Hence why I do not completely subscribe to Palpatine having completely thrown the fight as in the novel it even described Palpatine as putting in effort and pouring more and more dark side energy into himself to try and fight off Mace. However once Palpatine sensed Anakin thats when he threw the fight. If the fight had continued on I'd see an explosion of Force power or even a backlash happening due to how much raw darkside energy Palpatine kept releasing.

Darth Sion and Nihlus are two other examples as The exile was specifically tooled to deal with them. If you can counteract or guard against Nihlus' Force drain he is in fact no better then the average Sith Lord and can be defeated as such despite his immense TK power. Darth Sion is another individual entirely held together by his hate and pain. The exile beat him not through battle, but through appealing to his emotions. She wore the Sith Lord down mentally and eventually he gave in letting himself die. Not something that just anybody could accomplish as The Exile and Sion had something special between the two of them.

Considering we have seen not only Allema Keto do such things, but Naga Sadow, and Zannah herself on lower levels. It in fact makes complete sense as its a battle of not only Force power but of the mind. The mind is a much more vital area then any organ, and can lead to beings deaths without the rest of the body being touched. I think he may have retreated to his Holocron after Wyyrlock defeated him, but when Bane pilfered the knowledge from him I think Andeddu could do nothing but stand and watch.

Well considering characters such as Vitiate are apart of Legends now I use the legends continuity when examining this theory. Being as of right now the new canon has yet to provide any truly noteworthy material to draw me in. Dark Disciples was horribly rushed skipping from one point in time to another way to fast. DArk Lords of the Sith was action packed demonstrating both Vaders and Palpatine's power but the plot was simple, and the writing simpler. Aftermath was more of a middleground as far as the new canon goes. Nothing to write home about but a somewhat enjoyable read. The comics are where the new canon is excelling as of right now in my opinion, yet have not brought anything to the table as engaging or interesting as the old EU as of yet. Of course given a few more years I'm sure we'll see some great things.

I agree what a writer/director says matter little if they didn't show it being possible, but the thing is Karpshyn did show that Bane couldn't have taken over Zannah. From the first moment we saw the young women as a child she has had an incredibly strong will, and a determination all her own to be powerful and rip the mantle from Bane. Bane even acknowledged her strong will once or twice if I remember correctly and her intelligence. Plus this is Bane we're talking about. If he had succeeded in taking over Zannah he would have announced it as Bane for the intellectual he was still prided himself in his own identity.

Oh there is no doubting Vitiate being Akin to a force entity in terms of raw power and his refinement of it, but the feats are not unprecedented in the EU. I think him considering himself beyond the identity of the Sith is more a biproduct of his own arrogance and pride in himself. It is true that he is a manifestation of the force, but that does not put him above beings such as Palpatine, Luke, and a few other Force users as they would be able to combat him and win. Not to mention him being a mediocre duelist. Nihlus is much the same, if one can not counter or contend with Force Drain they will loose automatically to him. Even then if Nihlus brought his massive TK which very few outside top tier masters can match the opponent will loose. Abeloth is on a level above Palpatine, Nihlus, and Vitiate. Considering one can beat her but can't kill her. Even temporarily defeating her requires the destruction of her other avatars which are not lightweights in the least. It took both Ben Skywalker and Vestera near Force nexus'/Nexi to beat one, and another being struck down by Saba who is a great duelist herself. While the final one had to be beaten beyond shadows by both Luke and Darth Krayt who are both heavyweights in the force and lightsaber combat.

As for Sithisis I do not know what Sith Spirits those are but I could conscribe to them being the Banite Sith watching over their predecessors and convening with them. As remember how Palpatine found his way out of Chaos, because other Sith spirits showed him the way out, and considering that the Masters never truly held any contempt or hatred for their apprentices as far as we've been shown besides Tenebrous it can be assumed that they'd be more than willing to offer assistance to those that came after to achieve their goal of destroying the jedi.

 

Darth Chamenos, it is time for your first task. Now that you have chosen a path, and taken a new moniker, the next step is to construct a lightsaber.

Do not marginalize the importance of the lightsaber - mastery of it is among the most essential and fundamental of skills for a Sith. Even Darth Sidious, for all of his guile, was eventually forced to fall back on swordplay.

Go to saberparts.com, there you will find everything you need to create your lightsaber. Use the share function to save a close-up image of your creation, and post it here along with at least 200 words explaining the rationale behind your design decisions. If need be, research lightsaber forms so that you may construct a blade in accordance with the needs for whichever form you choose to utilize. If you do not wish to use a classical saber form, at least describe your combat tendencies and why your chosen design is fitting.


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Freedon Nadd was crushing Exar Kun with rocks and feeding him to giant wyrms until Exar summoned Naga Sadow's amulet, which he used to destroy Freedon Nadd with a single blast of energy. Warb Null wasn't even Force-sensitive until the armor attached itself to him.

 

I have returned Master Haretisch, and the task has been completed.​

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Spoiler: Saber

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I hereby present my saber for all to judge, for some it looks like a simple Double-bladed saber but it is much more than that. Removing visible switches and toggles from the hilt I have made it so only one intimate with this weapon will know how to activate it and use it to its full capabilities. With inbuilt Dual-phase emitter the blades can go between the average lightsaber length of 1.3 meters of up to 3 meters at max, and back down to the length of a shoto saber. Using these to their maximum effect one could use shock and awe techniques against ones opponent constantly keeping them guessing, and with a mix of trakata techniques one would become a wildcard. Due to the hilt being the length of an average single saber power blows while both blades active will be near impossible, though it removes the weakness of being sliced in half like other dual-bladed weapons with long hilts. Carrying two of these allows one near limitless options in combat whether it be using both as single blades, or one as a double-bladed weapon. Using two with all emitters active is suicide for even the best of duelists and one would be foolish to try it as they'd easily hue off a limb. Subscribing to the form of Niman I shall not use the jedi's pitiful version, but instead take it to the Nth degree using it to create my own form using a combination of all seven. Whether it be the elaborate footwork of makashi, the speed of Ataru, or the defense of Soresu I prepare myself for not just on given instance but for multiple. Of course this does leave the weakness of being a Jack of all trades but a master of none just as my moniker denotes me. Never will I be able to match the ferocity of a full blown Juyo user, nor match the unyielding strength of a Djem So specialist. My defense never as strong as a true Soresu weilder, and never as fast as a Ataru user and so on for all the other forms.​

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You are partially right in the fact that Freedon Nadd crushing Exar Kun's body. If he was that powerful after being a force ghost for so long just imagine his power when he was alive. As from what we've seen Nadd didn't use such a ritual to become a force spirit so the power he took was truly his own. However Nadd himself was not feeding Kun to the worm. The Massassi were doing it while Nadd sat to the side trying to get Kun to fall completely to the Darkside. Even then Kun bested his master Vodo-Siosk in lightsaber combat before even falling. From what we saw Kun was already incredibly powerful before Sadows Guantlet. Which once he acquired it no one still really knows if that is the amulets true power or a one off thing as it had been bathing in Dark Side energies for centuries before Kun retrieved it. Considering we never saw him use such a destructive display again I subscribe to the thought that it was a one time thing and that everything afterwards was done of Kun's own merit with a slight boost from the guantlet.

 

You can use the edit function to avoid double-posting RabidBunny

As for Freedon Nadd's power, one thing oft-overlooked is the fact that, per TOTJ Companion, Freedon Nadd had mastered nearly every Force power and rite of Sith sorcery, including creating Force storms, essence transfer and planetary-scale Force draining. Close, close indeed, to Palpatine's power as depicted in DE/ sourcebook.

I suspect Tech's point, Chamenos, is that Rey's victory too was a one-time thing, rather like Vader's defeat on Mimban, and that, particularly after Ren completes his training, we'll see that Rey is no 'Mary Sue.'

 

Most excellent, Chamenos. You are awarded 5 points for this task. Though I'm curious, what color is the blade?

 

Thanks I'll do that next time.

OOh. I didn't read that. Hmm and I assumed Nadd was powerful, but had no clue to him being That powerful! But it does make sense considering how powerful his spirit was off natural might alone. Considering over time most force spirits become shadows of their former selves and much weaker.

Yes we shall see in a year and a half. Hopefully it can turn things around for me.

Well my master with the tasks that will befit my role using a red saber is all to obvious who I am aligned with. I take pride in my role as a Sith and live to serve but it could cause a downturn in dealings and such or even ruin some manipulations larger at play. So instead why not use a white saber? It symbolizes not only the devotion I have to my own cause and to the Sith but also confuses others on who I align myself with. To be noted I do carry two of the above sabers.

 

Excellent. This is why I use a purple lightsaber myself. You are wise beyond your training, Chamenos.

 

*Bows* I aim to please Master. Of course great minds think alike though I can not yet match your wisdom.

 

Flattery will get you nowhere, apprentice. It may lessen the severity of the beatings, however.

 

We shall see my Master we shall see... Should I start on my next task?

 

Patience. Apprenticeships last for a minimum of two months - I have no doubt you will have completed every task required of you by then. Plan on one large task a week and a small one here and there.

 

Patience it shall be then. I will bide my time.