ST Why Snoke IS Darth Plagueis

It would fix more plot holes than create.

 

Care to elaborate on that?

 

No, you can't. Disney can claim whatever they want now but what GL says will always have priority in my book and in the GFFA as no one gets the galaxy better than him.

Absolutely not true.

So you reject the first six movies as well then? Lucas came up with those. Boy that's confusing.

JJ explicitly said he will never contradict George.

 

Might take a minute or so--need to have the time to sit down and really type.

Yes, they did reject his ideas. They rejected his ideas because even elements that might be used will be done so out of context. Lucas writes a concise story.

 

well there is a Post on Superherostuff.com facebook account that has a interesting tidbit about Anakin being Snoke.......at this point anything goes lol

 

Having seen TFA again today, I fully believe Snoke is Plaguies.

The key is Snoke's theme that evokes the opera music in ROTS, imo.

 

I rewatched TFA today and I liked more of the design of Snoke than during the first viewing. He was more human like than I remembered- some near-human or something. Not Muun though. I still think that Snoke is not Plagueis but may be somehow related to him. And still don't think that music matters really- John Williams may have used the same theme because it symbolizes dark side and evil manipulations not blatantly spoiling "he is the same guy that Palpatine talked about- hint hint". Still anything is possible still and will be revealed in upcoming episodes- but if he is Plagueis I'm surprised.

 

Disputing isn't invading. This thread isn't only for those who accept that Snoke is Plagueis. Doesn't arouse ire, either. As I've said, it's been fun. And better than Palpidious clone theories. A lot of the reasoning at times has been pretty poor, though. Still, better than Snoke is Luke, Leia, Palpatine, or Hux threads. Why not Snoke is Rey? We never see them onscreen at the same time.

 

I do agree that Disney do dislike the prequels very strongly, thats not secret. But I will be honest, this is the perfect way in which they could redeem the prequels, give them a hidden agenda and a whole new dimension as well as tie the ST to the PT very nicely.

 

Yeah Luke's Saber not Sidious!

 

Of course look at how its generating controversy. And keeping Star Wars chat alive all over the Web. Even on non-Star Wars sites.

 

Posting again as I'm having formatting issues:

I don't agree that Disney "dislikes the prequels strongly" as I've never read a statement/quote from anyone involved in the new movies that indicates this. If someone can contradict this, please post a quote or something. Kathleen Kennedy certainly hasn't said that. Abrams never did either. Obviously, hey want to do things a bit differently with these new movies as far as execution and filmmaking is concerned, thus getting back to what drew people to Star Wars in the first place. However, I don't know that there's any evidence that they are planning on ignoring them altogether. Let's not forget that Episode I-III grossed almost $3 billion worldwide. While there are the detractors, 1) plenty of people enjoyed them, 2) they kept Star Wars in the conversation for the duration of their releases. Sometimes I feel like I'm alone in this boat, but I found a lot to like in I, II and III. They have problems, to be sure, but I think they're great stories.

I agree with your last statement, however. I want them to dip into prequel lore, and I'm fully expecting it.

 

They don't dislike the prequels. They are letting Rebels use characters from the Clone Wars and allowing Marvel to write two prequel era titles (Kanan, and Obi-Wan and Anakin). They understand there were those who liked the prequels, and that they added to the saga. They also understand that the films themselves were flawed and it would be wise to distance themselves from some of their mythos and storytelling techniques. That being said they just aren't putting anything out because THEY WERE 60 YEARS AGO IN THE TIMELINE. It's not exactly relevant, and they want attention to be on the ST.

 

This is what scares me. Some Disney Executive 5-10 years from now who doesn't care about Star Wars decides to screw up canon just to make a killing. Like an Army of CGI Anakin clones fighting XYZ.

 

I think that Disney is definitely not a fan of the PT. Not because they have a soul and feel they weren't good for Star Wars - but rather because they are almost unanimously derided as poor movies and almost killed the Star Wars IP for many people. So, you are definitely in the minority of finding a LOT to like in the PT. I'm not saying you're wrong in liking them, just that it isn't a very widely held view.

But, you'd never hear anyone at Disney or involved with Star Wars openly rail the PT. It's a bad business move *AND* Disney owns the property. Why would they openly state they were poor movies? They still want people to buy their sets. Disney cares about only one thing ... $$$.

The choices made in TFA were obviously made to bring back the feeling and nostalgia of the OT. To wash our minds from the PT and get us feeling "Star Wars-y" again.

That isn't to say I don't think Snoke could be DP. I think it is very likely and that it will turn out that DP has turned his back on a lot of Sith philosophies since they really limited the story arcs that the Dark Side could get involved in.

 

Exactly they still haven't decided & left it up to Rian to fill in the blanks. But with all these we figured it out guys (Kristian Harloff & his followers) in favor of Plagueis could very well cause them to change the storyline & make him not Plagueis.

 

This thread is hilarious. How many years will the Plageuis conspiracies go on before people give it up?

 

Snoke's actual design and look wasn't locked down until very late in the production of the film, so the vagueness and ambiguity left around his history might be a sign they still weren't sure exactly what route to take on Snoke's backstory. There's wiggle room to make him be Plagueis, an unknown apprentice of Vader or Sidious, a dark side figure from somewhere else in the galaxy or any of the other plausible scenarios.

 

What happens if he turns out to be Plagueis?

 

The sky falls in.

The reason given why he IS Snoke are basically totally debunked (If you have ANY ear for music, you realize it is NOT the same music playing for the two; time to sign up for Music 101 at the local JC) or very easily coincidence (the word "wise" being used in the same sentence in descriptive terms, OMG, that is ultra-proof, ROFL); media articles containing interviews with Serkis have in no uncertain terms stated Snoke is NOT Plageuis, that he is new to the story.

At this point, you really have to WANT to believe it. But hey, people argued it would be him for a few years before the movie; the desire for it to be is strong. Too bad that doesn't make it so.

 

I do not think you fully understand what debunked means. It doesn't mean "I am pretentious, and have a better ear for music so my opinion on the matter trumps yours!" Neither does it mean, "It could just be a coincidence, which I think is more likely, so my opinion trumps yours!". What it means is either Episode VIII or IX telling us Snoke is not Plagueis, or someone at Lucasfilm makes a statement clearly saying, "Snoke is no Plagueis." Also if you would have asked David Prowess if Darth Vader was Luke Skywalker's father back in 1978 he most likely would have said no also. Not because he was lying, but because he didn't know Darth Vader was Luke's father until 1980. So no just because Serkis says something does not mean it is fact. He only knows what he has been told.

So to paraphrase, your opinion is not fact.

 

I wouldn't have to have a better ear for music, I could look at the musical notation and tell you it isn't the same music, which is what many are basing their theory on here. That theory is DEBUNKED that the music is the same, FACT. If that is what you base this theory on, it is debunked.

Yes, ANYTHING COULD happen in a fictional story, and you could form ANY opinion, they could possibly make Snoke turn out to be Mickey Mouse, but if you have only slim and faulty evidence to believe that, then you are just urinating into the wind and pulling things out of your butt.

Let me help you with some links:
http://nerdreactor.com/2016/01/04/andy-serkis-rejects-supreme-leader-snoke-is-darth-plagueis-theory/

http://geektyrant.com/news/andy-serkis-talks-supreme-leader-snoke-and-confirm-hes-not-darth-plagueis

 

Its a plausible theory. I'm attempting to leave the mystery open - it's more fun to see how Disney/JJ attempt to explain the 'new beginning' they have embarked on.

What would make a good story IMO is to connect the dots to other story elements and even include elements of the OT. I voted no here, simply because there is a lot of other good possibilities about who Supreme Leader Snoke could be. I like the idea that somehow Snoke is a former Imperial Fleet Commander, possibly even related to Tarkin. I also like the idea that the Galaxy as a whole was greatly affected by the events of ROTJ to the extent that great harms were done to new characters.

What we now so far:

“When we first started working on it, he [Abrams] had some rough notions of how Snoke was gonna look, but it really hadn’t been fully-formed and it almost came out of discussion and performance… That’s been fascinating. And in the meantime I’ve been able to see the look and design of the character grow and change as the performances change. So it’s been really exciting in that respect.” (Entertainment Weekly - Andy Serkis)​

“Supreme Leader Snoke is quite an enigmatic character, and strangely vulnerable at the same time as being quite powerful. Obviously he has a huge agenda. He has suffered a lot of damage. As I said, there is a strange vulnerability to him, which belies his true agenda, I suppose.”
(Entertainment Weekly - Andy Serkis)​

“No, he’s a new character in this universe. It is very much a newly-introduced character. He’s aware of what’s gone on, in the respect that he has been around and is aware of prior events. I think it’d be fair to say that he is aware of the past to a great degree.” (Entertainment Weekly - Andy Serkis)​

Ignoring the PT (such as Disney/JJ have done) the Sith do not pretend to be Jedi, but rather stand in the open and welcome a fight. Without any type of Sith background story this guy could virtually be anyone. Following the logic that Sith are 'made' not 'born' means that an individual goes through a radical transformation and would be virtually unrecognizable prior to the effect of this event. In simple terms: Born->Tragic Event->Sith Lord. Considering the tragic events of the battle of Endor, Jakku and other Rebel Alliance actions against the Empire, and also considering several documented accounts of the original ending of TFA it is quite likely that Mr Snoke here is simply a victim of the RA being the aggressors in the story. JJ is quoted as having a desire to morally confuse the audience with Leia and a 'Rebel Death Star', I expect that VIII will rely heavily on this type of tactic to build suspense.

G

 

Leaving aside the debate about clues of Snoke being Plagueis or not I think its interesting to consider whether the future films might draw direct references to the PT such as this.

Abrams film makes almost no references to the PT that I can remember outside of the short comment about potentially using clones rather the conscripts as storm troopers. However one instant where he avoids reference to the PT actually makes me think we might see some of it return in the following films, that is replacing Coruscant with the Hosnian System. On the face of it that might seem like avoiding the PT but really why look to do so? you could argue wiping out a location from the PT would actually make sense if totally disregarding it was the intension of these films. Given as well the limited amount of time it gets to me it seems much more likely that the Hosnian system replaced Coruscant because the latter will be returning in some form.

That also might relate to Plagueis I would say as I think its easy to see why say Coruscant could return but not say Naboo. Partly because it relates to the OT more but also IMHO because it was generally much better reguarded by fans with Naboo being more associated with Jar Jar and troublesome sand based romanic speachs. I would argue that Plagueis might actually be somewhat similar in that he ties into Palpatine who obviously relates to the OT even more strongly but was also one of the better regarded aspects of the PT(at least pre face melt).

Bringing back Plagueis you could argue wouldn't really be bringing back anything a lot of people dislike from the PT(indeed that opera scene is often picked out as one of the better character scenes in the films) with potential references to Palpatine but would also be a good way to tie the new films into the OT by having Plagueis relate his feelings on the Emporer and how he might look to operate politically or even now use the force differently.

I don't think its impossible that Disney wanted TFA to be as far from the prequels as possible to avoid the ill feeling around them but with some success under there belt might well be inclined to steer a bit closer to them in the sequels.