ST Why Snoke IS Darth Plagueis

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I don't see why people argue that Snoke can't be Darth Plaugesis because general audiences won't know who he is, so the reveal won't have any impact. But who says that his reveal has to be some big "I am your father" moment? Can't it be casual like how they revealed Kylo was Han Solos son? Why does have to be some big major event? I mean whoever he is revealed to be whether he's a old inquisitor or a ancient Sith like Bane brought back to life, the general audience won't really know who that is anyway.

The only way to make it a shocker is to make him Anakin, or Palpatine brought to back to life or a clone, but who cares. Why does it need to be a shocker?

I think he is Darth Plaguesis because that is what makes sense story wise, all the Sith are dead yet here is another one. Just happens to be the one that can cheat death. That's the only thing really established in actual the movies that could be a Sith threat.

 

Regarding the music and the humming. The humming was a hallmark of scenes involving Palpatine in ROTJ (or the Dark Side)



0:16, 3:16, 6:30

I am not arguing the similarity of these segments, merely that humming has been in Star Wars music in ROTJ, principally in relation to Palpatine or Luke giving into anger. And no, I'm not saying that Snoke is Sidious. I'm merely pointing out that it is used to create an ominous mood.

In ROTS, we have a an instance of humming occurring again in a scene with Palpatine, in which he is trying to plant doubt in Anakin's head regarding the Jedi. The scene at the opera starts with Anakin reporting to Palpaitne and Palpatine telling him that Grievous has been discovered hiding in the Utapau system. Shortly thereafter, Palpatine dismisses his entourage, and right as they get up is when the piece "Palpatine's Teachings" begins to play, and that deep hum begins and continues to play albeit more muted in the background, as Palpatine tells Anakin that he can no longer rely on the Jedi..



The hum then picks up again briefly when Palpatine mentions Plagueis

The deep hum begins again right after the mention of Darth Plagueis (2:10), but then the deep male humming stops for the remainder of their conversation at about 2:20. Meaning, the humming is actually absent from the part of the scene in which Palpatine elaborates on Darth Plagueis.

The music playing in the background in the film itself, is not identical to the "Palpatine's Teachings" track on the soundtrack. For instance, listen to the music at 2:23 and you'll notice that the male humming has actually given way to female humming when Palpatine says "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith." This is absent from the track "Palpatine's Teachings"



And there are other discrepancies, as in Palpatine's Teachings there are some familiar musical cues that are absent in the track that plays in the actual film during the Opera scene. E.G. at the 3:00 mark, at 2:38, and at 4:56.

The section of the music that people are associating with Plagueis and then comparing to Snoke's theme, is actually hardly associated with Plagueis at all, since in the actual film, that deep humming ends with the beginning of the Plagueis tale, and instead replaced by female humming and an instrumental piece.

The Snoke theme in contrast is constantly changing tune



Whereas the humming during the opera seen is in very long, drawn out notes with slight variation, the humming in "Snoke" drops at 0:28 then raises at around 0:33 and has more of a singing quality/pattern to it, like you're listening to some religious piece in a cathedral (though of course more ominous). There is very little in the way of instruments, but what little there is does not match anything in either the "Palpatine's Teachings" track, nor the piece playing during the opera scene.

That's about as analytical as I can possibly get in trying to make a case against this music "evidence." The humming isn't the same, it has a different pattern, it has hardly any musical accompaniment in the "Snoke" piece, and the humming during the opera scene actually stops and is replaced by female humming and instruments, as Palpatine begins to explain who Plagueis was.

As for why there is any humming to begin with. I feel like it just means "bad guy" or "ominous setting" that's all.

There's nothing to say he's a Sith. The Visual dictionary suggests otherwise, in that the First Order does not make use of Sith or Inquisitors.

 

huh?? darth plagueis is dead, it was killed by his apprentice

 

Thanks

 

Even if Sidous killed him, what's stopping him from cheating death? Because he's dead?

 

If Snoke is somehow not Plagueis at all, them what the hell was he doing the entire time?! And how did Palpatine not sense that there was another Sith lord out there?! Unless he's from a different area of the Universe entirely, far away from the civilization of the Core, and beyond the Unknown Regions...

 

Yes, I see that you can do this all day, and don't even know enough about music to have this conversation. I know that you can't read music, and have zero musical knowledge by the whole content of our conversation. What I meant by them being in different keys was that that, among other things, would make the sheet music look much different to soemone who didn't know what they were looking at, so whether or not it was essentially the same piece, someone with no musical expertise (very obviously you) would never be able to decipher the difference. If you get a friend on here that knows something about music, I would be glad to continue to have this conversation, and it could be quite interesting. There actually is a guy on the net that thinks it is Plageius, and has real expertise in music. He admits there are differences, but thinks it was intentionally altered in certain ways around the plot. While I think what he is saying is a stretch, he is at least worth having a conversation with because he knows something about music, unlike you. You are wasting my time.

 

I always felt that opera scene music was part of the show & background noise.

 

In the books Palpatine was always thinking he felt his presence, and was scared that he would show up. He was also not interested in ruling the galaxy as much as palapatine he was trying to figure out the force almost scientifically, so he shut outside world so he could do his experiments. Maybe he was recovering from being killed, and was slowly regenerating, maybe he was working on a new chosen one and created Rey through the midichlorians.

 

So do I, frankly. Since the humming actually is most pronounced during those two moments (0:00 and 2:11 in the clips above) when the water globe/Mon Calamari are the focus of the shot. When focused on Palpatine and Anakin, the music is muted, but when the show they are watching is the focus of the shot, the humming volume increases.

As far as what was Snoke doing prior to TFA, we don't know. It's a big galaxy, and a huge chunk of it lays in the Unknown Regions. He could have been out there somewhere. Or maybe they knew of each other and left each other alone. Maybe Palpatine and Snoke had fought and Snoke had lost and fled, but resurfaced after the fall of the Empire. Maybe Snoke will conform to the ancient prisoner that gets released cliche and we'll find out he was locked up for a long time.

Palpatine isn't all seeing. So it's also possible that he also just didn't know about Snoke. He didn't even know about Luke or Leia or Yoda or Obi-Wan.

Snoke may have been an admirer of what Palpatine had accomplished, and thus explaining why he has taken over to be Palpatine's heir.

We frankly don't know. There's a bunch of ways they could spin it.

 

He has been re-named Darth Plagueis the Wise Coward.

 

Is Snoke Darth Vader?

www.cinemablend.com/m/new/Snoke-Darth-Vader-Star-Wars-Picture-Make-You-Do-Double-Take-104497.html

 

I'm cool with Snoke being Plagueis, but I accept Abrams and Serkis saying he's not a Sith or Plagueis. I guess you could make the case that Sidious didn't know about Snoke because he didn't pinpoint where Luke was while he was on Tatooine, so maybe he missed where Snoke was, too. I have to say after thinking about it for a little bit, making Snoke be a fresh new character opens up the story in a new direction. I have to say I'm very please with TFA and now I'm just along for the ride because they seem to know what they are doing and I'm betting that their future plans for the saga will be just as strong.

 

I thought the smiley made it clear I was just messing around...

 

I'd go with a creation of Plagueis or some being Plagueis saved from dying before Plagueis himself who was killed dead by Darth Sidious.

 

He was probably reading TFN forum threads

Palpatine is a Clone of Sidious
Sidious is a Clone of Palaptine
Charlton Heston will be in TPM as a Jedi Master
Gabriel Byrne will be in TPM as a Jedi Master
Yoda was a Sith
Can Lucas do dark?

Those were the days. Back then, you had to be warned about turning threads into PT vs. LOTR debates. Snoke isn't the only old timer.

You say why wouldn't Sidious be aware of another Sith Lord? He's not omniscient and Snoke wasn't a Sith Lord.

 

Oh, OK.

 

How did the Jedi not sense a powerful Sith mere feet from them in the very room they were standing in for years?

TPM
YODA : The very Republic is threatened, if involved the Sith are.
MACE WINDU : I do not believe they could have returned without us knowing.
YODA : Hard to see, the dark side is. Discover who this assassin is, we must.

AOTC
COUNT DOOKU: The dark side of the Force has clouded their
vision, my friend. Hundreds of Senators are now under the
influence of a Sith Lord called Darth Sidious.

OBI-WAN: I don't believe you.


Not to mention ROTJ
VADER
I have felt him, my Master.

EMPEROR
Strange, that I have not. I wonder if your
feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader.

 

Sidious could no longer detect Darth Maul, he had no idea he was alive either so one wonders if the Dark Side and the Force in general was working against him. Sidious was also fearful of losing power once Maul was gaining greater strength in the Dark Side and it began to sway towards him on Mandalore. So Sidious like the Jedi can lose power(presuming the Force is picky or serves who it favors at any given time those who are worthy with the whole will of the Force), it is not a sure thing. Palpatine unwitting admitted that during the Opera scene about the Jedi and the Sith being alike in almost everyway and afraid of losing power(like Plagueis himself did).

 

ANAKIN: The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves.

PALPATINE: And the Jedi don't?

ANAKIN: The Jedi are selfless . . . they only care about others.

PALPATINE smiles.

Hardly unwillingly....Palps is reducing the difference between Jedi and Sith in Anakin's mind.

 

Indeed...

Supreme Chancellor: Remember back to your early teachings. "All who gain power are afraid to lose it." Even the Jedi.
Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi use their power for good.
Supreme Chancellor: Good is a point of view, Anakin. The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power.
Anakin Skywalker: The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves.
Supreme Chancellor: And the Jedi don't?
Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi are selfless... they only care about others.
Supreme Chancellor: [looking a little frustrated] Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis "the wise"?
Anakin Skywalker: No.
Supreme Chancellor: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith who lived many years ago. He was so powerful and so wise that he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.
Anakin Skywalker: He could do that? He could actually save people from death?
Supreme Chancellor: The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
Anakin Skywalker: What happened to him?
Supreme Chancellor: He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, and then one night, his apprentice killed him in his sleep. It's ironic that he could save others from death, but not himself.
Anakin Skywalker: Is it possible to learn this power?
Supreme Chancellor: Not from a Jedi.

 

There is a difference between biding ones time and being a coward. I think this has been covered MANY times in this thread, but let's do it again shall we?

Palpatine tries to murder his master. Master survives but realizes that his avaricious apprentice won't stop trying, so he goes off and hides beyond the outer rim until the apprentice's Empire falls apart...then comes back. Just because he might have hid doesn't make him cowardly, it means he was smart enough to allow his apprentice the time to implode all by himself.

 

He doesnt even smile in that particular bit though. To me it looks like Anakin shuts him up, then he has to bring up the story of Darth Plagueis.