ST Is the Force Awakens really a "safe" film?

They are looking to evoke certain things. There are also other designs and ideas explored and also used in the film. And yes, the idea there is no creativity or ambition coming from Carter and co seems misplaced to me.

Could they have differentiated more? Yes. Does it harm the film? For me, beyond the trench run? No. I have zero problems with X-wings, TIEs, the Falcon or Stormtroopers in my SW. I love those elements. Am I hoping for more moving forwards? Yes, but I'll be amazed if we don't get it.

 

Right. It was a deliberate artistic decision (which was likely driven by JJ and Kasdan, in any event). What Carter did with that framework is brilliant, IMO. Destroyer husks buried in the sand, etc. It was a way of making "nostalgia" for the OT part of the thematic structure of the film. Which is why it rarely "feels" like nostalgia. It's an integral part of the story being told.

Carter's great, and I can't wait to see what he develops for Episode 8.

 

There are other ideas, good ones too IMO, BUT THEY ARE NOT USED. That's the point you don't seem to be grasping. "Yeah we had all these wonderful concepts for what Jakku could look like... scrub land, paddy fields etc, but in the end we decided to make it look more like Tatooine".

 

Yes. They felt the way forwards was through the past thematically, and for the most part it works very well. I can see why some see rehash though other than the trench run I feel the echoes normally feel different enough. I think within that thematic framework I think there is ample creativity on display and a stack of bravery on the character front.

I think the junker vibe of Jakku is different enough in feel for me, and it seems to me they are consciously echoing the origins of Anakin and Luke on their desert planet.

Sure Takodana had forest, but so does Naboo and I like the lakes and Maz's castle.

Starkiller base again feels just different enough from Hoth due to the forests and even the scope and the rock elements in the base itself.

But they are trying to echo the OT consciously. I think it's more on the nose visually than perhaps what George might have done at times but thematically I think it's more coherent than anything George managed. And I still come back to my earlier point - new/ different isn't always better or less safe.

 

Heck, I even loved the trench run.

 

Um, have any of you actually watched ANH recently? I have.. and Jakku/Tattooine do not look like similar.

The Tattooine of ANH is much more rocky badland where Jakku is actual desert.... really not that similar (between those 2 films specifically)

Honestly, it's yet another reason TESB is the best SW film.. it's the only film of the original 6 with no tattooine and the only film of the 7 without any sort of desert planet

 

I like the visuals. I like less that's it's so similar. Shove it through a natural canyon or even a vertical dive into the firing mechanism and it feels fresher. I think it skews the rehash debate more than it deserves. Most of the other echoes are more organic or subversions. I feel it's the one place for me where the criticism truly lands (though that is mitigated by it being brief and not the main attraction).

 

No, I'm talking about a lot of the visual ideas that were used. Such as the method of "group visualization" he employed, the play of light on the faces of Kylo and Han on the bridge (and the flashing blue and red on the faces of Rey and Kylo in the forest), light/dark visual motifs, fire/ice motifs throughout the film (blue and red is a color throughline in the film, from beginning to end), the fossils of the OT littering a landscape, Maz as a "lady of the Lake," Luke on a rocky island in the middle of a vast ocean, the play of light from BB-8 in the dark, BB-8 himself, the Knights of Ren, Kylo's "knight templar" look, Kylo's bat-like ship, Maz's "sci-fi Asian fortress" concept, Rey's speeder as a sort of tractor, great new alien designs, TIEs skating over the surface of a lake, leaving light ripples, the "brutalist" architecture on Starkiller Base, Phasma, etc. There are lots of great ideas that made it into the film, and some great ideas that didn't make it. And I generally think Carter helped generated a lot of those ideas, and made some good decisions, IMO, about what made the cut and what didn't.

And the blend of "familiar with new" was a deliberate artistic choice. You simply disagree with that choice. I think it was an excellent way of connecting the film's concept art to the film's core theme of looking back for wisdom, but not letting the past be stifling. Our new characters live in the bones of the past, but ultimately break out of it. That's reflected very well in the film's design, and I give Carter a lot of credit for that.

 

I actually loved Rey and Finn and was not complaining, I just said it wasn't a risk in this day in age.

 

I personally think it was both a risk and opportunity. We're at a "cusp" on these sorts of issues. Soon, however, it won't be a risky thing at all. And that's a good thing.

 

I get that. And I don't think it's completely wrong. But it feels very different to me. More dynamic, less dambusters. And it is a visual featst. I love the troppers on the turrets.

 

I like the turrets.

 

Another thread devolved into this but.....

Hunger Games.
Frozen.
Divergent.
Prometheus.
And the Fifth Wave film coming up that i saw the trailer for while watching TFA.
Oh, Zootopia, also.

Why are people acting like having a woman as a lead is a big thing?
As for black sidekicks....pretty much every Quentin Tarantino movie? Isnt this a trope,too?
come on.

 

Wow, I can't believe how many crappy YA fiction franchises there are now

 

Your list proves the opposite point you're trying to make, I fear. Basically, not that many movies have female leads. An incredibly small number, comparatively-speaking.

 

It's become cool and part of the backlash to say the movie was just like A New Hope and all. I want to (not really) see what these same people have to say after Episode VIII which has been promised to "get weird."

Yet the "general public" (the side of it barely interested in the movie at all, as opposed to the members of this so-called general public willing to see a Star Wars movie and who go see new movies that are trendy) could also be easily influenced by memes and simple statements negatively labeling the movie a remake, and just be turned off from seeing it in the first place.
I don't know about where you guys are, but at each showing I've attended of this movie, there were definitely fewer than five black people in the theater, if any at all. There are a lot of reasons for that not worth elaborating now (however they are simply a lower percentage of the population), but contrary to popular pseudo-intellectual belief, black people aren't simply interested in a movie just because there is a black character (just like females aren't just drawn because of a female lead), and to think so is to think they are so simple-minded as a whole and minimizes the fandom of those in attendance. It's interesting how no one thinks a white audience is drawn simply because of white artists (in movies, TV, music, etc).

 

I loved the crashed wrecks in the sands of Jakku. However, as much as I like the film, to feature stormtroopers, Star Destroyers, Tie Fighters, X-wings still around unfortunately minimised the impact of those images. Episode 7 could not take risks. It had to be a success. It was a commercial decision to have remnants of the Empire as a threat, it was a commercial decision to replace the Rebellion with the Resistance, it was a commercial decision to have Vader MkII and the Emperor MkII. Disney was so desperate for the film to be a hit, it had to entice the audience back with familiar images - and it felt like it. It had to feel like the Star Wars of old. It was an incredibly safe film. An enjoyable film, but very safe and stale. TESB was brilliant because it did things that no one expected. That was brave. TFA on the other hand did very little risk taking and I'm not expecting Ep 8 to be any different. From a creative POV though, it has to if Star Wars has any hope of entering a new golden era that we've not experienced since the early 80s.

 

I don't think those decisions were "commercial." They were personal story decisions by JJ Abrams, because he essentially wanted to make a film that delighted him. And some of that "delight" revolved around the underdog vs. overdog elements of the story, and specific sounds and designs from the OT. That's why it works, IMO. It's clearly a passion project for Abrams. He did what we wanted. I thought it would feel much more like a "film made in committee," but it didn't. At all.

 

The answer to this question, and if people thought it needed to be "safe", could be found in speculation and wish list threads before filming started, or casting was done, or concepts were revealed.

 

Well that's your impression. To me it felt like it was made by committee unfortunately.

 

Thinking more I think the question of "what's safe" for general audiences is different from "what's safe" for fans.

Unfortunately no matter what they did there were going to be people who nerd raged about it.

I bet if TESB was released today there would be a decent sized minority on these forums telling us how stupid it was and how it ruined Luke's character to make Darth Vader his father.... etc etc

 

So you went from a female lead not being a safe choice to now not many movies having female leads.
I think your reply shows that it did prove a point.

Hunger games got 4 movies and it's huge.
Frozen was tremendous.
Divergent not as popular but got 3 movies out?
Prometheus is getting a sequel made and for a while there was Alien 5 with Ripley coming back. The Alien series so far has 4 movies with female leads.
Dont know anything about 5th wave past the trailer so i dont know how many movies that is going to get. That goes for Zootopia, as well.

This is Star Wars, man. ALL the SW movies have made a bunch of money. There is almost nothing they can do to actually mess up.

The film could've been a Mongolian female with a Cambodian Stormtrooper and it would STILL make as much money.
Cause it's STAR WARS!!!!!

Blame Harry Potter.

 

Why the movie was well made it really is way too similar to episode IV. Me and my best friend both said it the minute we walked out of theater that it went way past homage and felt like a remake. (This was the first showing 7pm on the first day) It was strange cause the film was so well made, but we both came out of the theater disappointed, we were really hoping for something new after waiting so long. I remember walking out of episode one excited and ready to go back to see it again sure I cringed a lot in certain parts, but it was new and exciting.

I ended up seeing TFA 3 times so far and it has grown on me, I guess the film was really made for a new generation and not me. I really hope episode 8 isn't just a rehash of empire. So now I like TFA but still wish for something new, my friend is now hating on the movie and telling one he comes into contact with that the movie sucks and really hates on it.

 

While I really enjoyed the film I definitely will say that we now need something new in Episode 8... I was ok with some familiar beats so they could put the focus on introducing new characters... but that's done now

 

I think Disney/JJ did everything in production to make it a "safe" bet for SW fans and moviegoers in general. Hired a decent Director with an affinity for the material and a proven track record for rebooting franchises. Got Kasdan involved. Brought in a highly experienced producer. Made sure there was plenty of action. Gave it a look and feel that was wholly OT. Brought back as many fan favourites as the plot could fit. Included the Falcon. Stepped away from a wholly bluescreen look and brought back more practical effects. Gave it a proper budget and marketing push.

Was this cynical? You can argue that. Was it welcomed by moviegoers the world over? Absolutely.

As for the story they delivered, and the amount of clues/references they left hanging to entice the SW faithful back for more...it definitely had an edge to it. Detractors can argue this was a rehash. But this was no pedestrian effort where they just regurgitated everything in a cash grab a la Die Hard 5 or some such garbage. Even the detractors must acknowledge some things of substance occurred in TFA.

I did say to my friends on the steps outside the cinema after the first viewing that I hoped that was the last Death Star plot I ever see, though.