ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

i think the most ridiculous part is, they show finn with the lightsaber. how is that for spoilers? also the millernium falcon model comes with finn and chewbacca. who flies the falcon? rey lol but the pilot isnt important apparently.

 

I read Lost Stars and wondered how it would fit into the main trilogy...I kept thinking they're showing us Hux's family background but couldn't see a connection there......making Finn the lost child of Captain Ciena Ree and Thane Kyrell would be amazing....a sweet and sad love story and it might set the stage for him to become a pilot with the resistance.... would be interesting if his Dad is still around....

In the OT, I still remember Luke looking dazzled (I won't use the term lovestruck now that I know their actual relationship ) when he sees her in the prison for the first time... he calls her beautiful more than once....and yes, she hugs him first...not to mention the kiss

There has been a lot of protest that the force seems to only be within the skywalker family.... so even if they re-write (if they do), I doubt any of the main characters with force sensitivity will be a skywalker.... but that being said, they call pull a bait and switch and pair Rey with any of the three guys.....or none of the three (like in Brave)

 

This is sort of my feeling too. If they're not related (and really that 'IF' needs to be highlighted with a giant neon flashing sign), then I could certainly see them at least playing with the idea on screen in a very literal idea of 'seduction' to a side of the force. Might even go for a subversion and have the light side be the one of the compelling seductive power...

I'm also sort of surprised that nobody has really raised the possibility that Reylo/Finnrey aren't necessarily things that are exclusive: you could very well get both.

 

In the novel, he literally mentions it three times that she attacks him first, and that she is the one trying to kill him....and when she says it is because of being hunted by someone in a mask, he takes it off....doesn't sound like the behavior of someone who is doing the attacking...

 

I already have the same Kylo Ren figure.... Bwahahaa

 

Welcome fellow Poe and Rey shipper!

 

According to the law:

Kyko commited assault when he held a Lightsaber to Rey's throat when she was helpless as that fits the legal definition.

As for the Jedi Mind assaulting Cade Bane...that actually is canon since they discuss that fact and make it clear that this is an evil act but one they are driven too out of desperation. The entire Clone war shows how dangerous war can be for a Jedi as desperation and a desire to save lives can lead to doing one evil act to prevent another more evil act (At least you hope that's how it turns out).

Now, as for Kylo giving an order to shoot unarmed prisoners, here is what the Geneva Convention has to say about Prisoners of war

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/y3gctpw.htm

It also must be pointed at that the first order is in violation of the treaty they signed with the Republic. As for deaths he is personally responsible for, he kills a man on Jakku who'd shown no sign of resisting detainment or intent to attack Ren or anyone under his command when he was murdered. Next during Rey's vision we clearly see him stabbing someone in the back with a lightsaber.

As for the Mind Assault scene, it's still empowering for Rey because she fought off her attacker and scared him so badly (which you can see on his face when he backs off) that he went running to his master for guidance. I rather enjoy that moment, seeing Ben Solo....MASTER of the Knights or Ren and Snoke's pet sent running with his tail between his legs the first time he meets someone from whom he can not take whatever he wants

 

Thank you, rey09 I agree.

I want to add: I didn’t mean that only violent rape counts as rape, so I hope nobody reads it that way. Rape is rape, even if relatively little violence is used. But that's the thing, rape is rape. Sexual violence. Mind reading (even if it were possible) isn’t rape. Reading somebody’s diary isn’t rape. Once I even heard somebody describe how they 'felt like they'd been raped' when their iPhone got stolen. WTF. Just... no.

I have always hated Leia's bikini scene. That’s not sexual subtext, that’s sexual text. She’s chained and wearing practically nothing, Jabba is touching her and holding her close. (To say nothing of that disgusting licking...) There is sexual harassment in the SWU. Leia's bikini scene is it; Rey's interrogation scene is nothing like it. At all.

But you know what I find especially distasteful about the ’mind rape’ analogies? That this happens in the interrogation scene according to the script:

THEY'RE BOTH SURPRISED: they react to a feeling that passes between them -- AN ENERGY THEY RECOGNIZE IN EACH OTHER.

So what is this, then? Bonding over rape? Rape-induced epiphany? Rape that awakens Rey’s latent powers? Rape with a positive outcome?

If the interrogation scene were really intended as a ’rape’, the implications here are incredibly disturbing.

 

I'm not saying "Reylo" will happen or that you are wrong. I AM saying that the imagery is real and intentional. It could very well be that Kylo's weird obsession ultimately will not be reciprocated. In fact I think that's the most likely scenario. But I do know an archetype when I see it and that was Beauty and the Beast / Phantom of the Opera all over again.

 

Cool, cool. Good point about the force bonding. Just to clarify, when I say padawan Rey rebelling against Master Luke, I didn't mean in the sense of turning to the dark side or anything like that. I mean an instance of expressly going against his wishes regarding Kylo Ren because while she can see he means well and is wise, she also has a strong sense of what needs to be done and cannot defer to her master. Like Luke going to Cloud City in spite of Yoda.

Imo, people can't fully develop into their own identity without some kind of rebellion against the authority figure, be it small or large. This is how we differentiate and establish ourselves as individuals. We all do it during adolescence to some degree. It can go horribly wrong, of course, but in general it is a needed thing. We are all of us "rebels with a cause" during the second decade of our lives. Rey is a teenager looking for a father figure. She will find that in Luke, most likely (although not literally, imo), and that is excellent, but that carries with it certain normal dynamics between parent figures and teens. Star Wars is not obligated to show that, but it would be nice if they did since they are so good at nuance.

Now as for Kylo Ren, it seems like Luke was so distraught by what took place that he exiled himself in order not to deal with it. I don't think Luke will hate Kylo, but I do think he will have given up on him, just like everyone else. Everyone except for Leia. She is heartbroken, but I'm sure part of her still believes in her son's ability to change. I don't think she'll ever give up. Again, just my thoughts.

 

'Tortuous' is a strange word choice, considering that it means convoluted or twisted. I guess Hidalgo meant 'torturous'.

 

We disagree on the intent of that imagery.

You see a dark prince carrying a potential love interest. I see a monster carrying off a prisoner, which then subverts expectations by having the prisoner turn the tables on the monster.

 

I like that scenario too... I hope she is still able to get into his mind and sees what really happened...because every character could be giving their version of the tale or a lie....but to actually be present and witness it is a different matter....it would clear up many ambiguities and also explain why he left and joined the FO (whether he had a good reason to or not)...

 

Yes, Kylo's ability is described as torturous. Big whoop! FYI, he is the villain in TFA. Villains do villainous things, including shooting people, capturing people against their will, tying them up, and torturing them. Yes, Kylo did all of those things and he's not a very nice man. That's not the point.

The point is that he was comparatively gentle with Rey when he searches her mind. We have a point of comparison in Poe's interrogation that highlights the differences. In the novelization he even tells Rey that he will go as easy as possible. Does that make him good? No. But it does highlight his comparatively gentle treatment of Rey.

Also, being villainous and torturing people is VERY different from being a rapist.


As for the second bolded part, we ALL enjoyed that moment. That's part of what makes this ship possible. Rey can and has knocked Kylo Ren off his high horse. She can kick his butt and hold her own against him. You're only proving the point that she is no victim in their ongoing dynamic.

 

She thought Luke was a myth actually.... so I seriously doubt he is her father.....she was 5-7 years old....old enough to know who her father was.....if she were a baby, it would be a different matter.

 

Also pay attention to how the scene plays out. The focus is NOT on Kylo carrying her away. It's on Finn, who knows exactly what Kylo is capable of, seeing it, flipping the heck out, chasing after them frantically, and then screaming Rey's name in an agonized tone of voice while ominous and "sad" music plays.

Also there's a shot of BB-8 looking up at Kylo's ship as it flies away and making one of his "concerned" beeps.

So no, it's not played as "romantic" in ANY way.

 

I agree with this...and when she held Annakin's lightsaber in her hand, ready to fight...I think that was the moment of confirmation for him that this was the girl in his visions... if it is a force bond, it cannot be severed....I think it was done once in the SW Legends but it left the person messed up....even death doesn't sever a force bond....unless they plan to change all that in the new canon, a force bond is irreversible.

 

I also got the impression he would never hurt her. I guess that's why I don't see a potential relationship between them as abusive. (I do know a potential relationship is very difficult for other reasons, tough)

 

I think one of the most poignant parts of the OT is when Luke is so adamant about getting Anakin Skywalker back. He calls him father repeatedly, and says that he still believes there's still light in him constantly. Luke really believed in him so much despite Vader being so against it till the very last second. Knowing Luke had that belief in someone, especially someone who he did not truly know, I'm interested to see how Luke will react to Kylo Ren. No doubt Luke feels guilt, but how he feels about Ben Solo coming back will be intriguing, esp. since he actually, presumably, knew Ben since he was a baby. I'm wondering if Luke was the one who pitched the name actually, since Luke was closer to him. Leia just knew him as an important figure form the past, but Luke was actually close to Obi Wan.

 

It kind of is, she calls him a monster and meant it, her face angry and disgusted....and he has yet to do anything to prove her wrong.

1. Was he being sarcastic, was he mocking her because he thought her too weak to resist him?

2. It's already been confirmed that where the Novel contradicts the film (as happens here) the film takes precedence.

I don't see it, violating a person, inflicting pain on them while helpless, threatening to take what you want and then trying to do just that, speaking aloud their own private thoughts while inflicting said pain and violation is certainly no better than rape.

She fought back, but he still tried to make her a victim and that is not a good place for a relationship to start. Then he goes on to kill her mentor and nearly kill the very first friend she ever made. She might forgive him, he might be redeemed, but I doubt we will see anything beyond that.

 

Omg I didn't even think about that! It'd be such a cool twist if he had visions of her. That would make far more sense then if he left her on Jakku or whatever the other theories are.

 

unarmed prisoners those "villagers" were not!
How about those "villagers" starting shooting at the stormtroopers immediately after they land, thus indicating violent hostility? If this is a war conflict how should the troopers react?! Then after capturing the armed and hostile "villagers" - do you suggest as an alternative their imprisonment on a Stardestroyer or elsewhere for life?

Also, just to "defend" Kylo's order to execute the prisoners. In the novelization it is implied that this is FO standard practice (I.e to not take hostile prisoners). If you think about it. There is no other way hostile, armed rebels could be treated by FO. I'm not condoning it, but that's the reality as it is.

Geneva Convention - you can't be serious bring this up, it's totally inapplicable for a galaxy far far away a long time ago... (The Geneva Convention is not even applied by some TODAY in the real world by countries who signed it, for instance USA - Guantanamo case...)

violation of the treaty they signed with the Republic - hm, where do you have that information about a treaty??? Also, if there is a treaty as you claim, that treaty is not with the Resistance (which we know is not officially acknowledged or supported by the Republic) and is not with armed guerrilla groups who shoot first and negotiate later I should think...

Also, let's point out that for some reason people only count the victims of the "bad" guys. What about Poe killing Finn's stormtrooper friend? Do we count this? Is that going to affect Poe and Finn's friendship? And why not?! We have seen Kylo personally killing two people - Tekka and Han. (And we saw that he had huge conflict with the second one). I saw Poe and Finn killing many many more...Just so that we are clear and keep things in perspective.

(Also Kylo tried to object to both the uses of the Starkiller weapon, so we can definitely not try to pin that on him...)

How about all the people who died on two Death Stars and one planet (Starkiller base). If Finn has the potential to defect and leave the "bad guys" and join and be accepted by the good guys (and us knowing that those new stormtroopers are kidnapped children programmed and trained from birth), isn't it on the Resistance conscience that they might have killed thousands (millions?) of people who potentially could be good? Why didn't they instead arrest them?

 

I don't disagree with that. I'm only saying the imagery was sexual in nature, that it was intentional and that it represents an archetype. That type of scene only works in the context of TFA because Rey and Kylo are basically equals. Otherwise it would be too over the top creepy for general audience comfort.

I understand your point but compare the two interrogations. One was creepy but the other was impersonal and brutal.

 

You need to finish reading something before you can tell whats going on in a picture?

 

Dude, really? You do know men can be raped as well, right?
Do you have female friends who have been raped? I do. I know the difference.

Now, personal experience, I'll tell you:
I'd rather die than be raped. (Many women have a similar opinion)
I've had my diary read and mocked and I have no deep trauma from that.

I know you want to make Kylo Ren look bad, and there are lots of reasons why he's really bad. No need to make up things and make analogies that are super offensive to people.