ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Yes, there's a whole thread with quite a few great arguments as to why Finn might be force sensitive. It's worth a look.

Still, in therms of TFA, Finn is not FS. Finn does not go to be trained as a jedi. We can safely say that Finn with a lightsaber for TFA is misdirection.

Sure, he holds a lightsaber and even fights with it, but it was really for nothing, and he's not even good with it. It was clearly misdirection, especially if we consider how the images and toys with Rey holding the lightsaber were hold back. Regardless of Finn's future, he was used as misdirection. We have no reason to think the misdirection stopped there. (And again, I hope a lot more for Finn than foil for the awesome heroine and misdirection, but that's another story).

 

we already had one epic force awakening, it makes no sense to have another one half way through the trilogy...it doesn't work from a story telling perspective...its distracting...

 

Yeah, if Finn was Jedi material we would probably know about it by now. I would like to see Finn use the force in some small manner (as I understand it the force is in everyone and everything but some are more sensitive to it than others) but I don't think he's fully force sensitive.

 

I noticed in the film, Finn turns and looks at the sky and we hear people screaming, someone said to me that it is everyone around him that is screaming, but it sounds like he is hearing people like Obi-Wan did.

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I agree with a lot of what you're saying. You establish a firm understanding of Rey as a character, something I can't say a lot of the hardcore Reylo shippers manage to do. However, it's an understandable fact that viewers who didn't feel compassion for Ren are underestimating his value to the story. He's very important, not some Dark Maul villain-of-the-week. He's still Han and Leia's son, and he will be redeemed. The fate of the galaxy lies in the hands of Rey and Ren. The writers went out of their way to paint Ren as a confused, distraught, deluded and contradictory 30-year-old child. In all his darkness and ambiguity, he's quite naive. His defection led to him not developing into an adult mentally, but he isn't being controlled entirely by Snoke. He talks in secret to Vader's helmet, desperately begging it to help him. He goes against Snoke's orders more than once, and it's undeniable that he has personal interests that deviate completely from Snoke and the First Order. What they are exactly, who knows? I'm confident Ren's ultimate goal is to finish what Vader started by bringing Balance to the Force. His methods might still make him an antagonist, but as an audience Ren's motivations have to be relatable, even if they are misguided. We have to understand what he wants, and why he wants it. There's absolutely no way his objective is to "enslave the universe" or "live forever." He isn't that kind of character, and it would be horrendously bad writing. Mark my words, Ren's motivations are personal, and ingrained in the history of his family. There's no doubt in my mind Ren is talking about fulfilling the prophesy, however he intends to do so.

There is no undoing Ren's actions, and I find it aggravating to see people attempt to justify them. They are what make him such a complex and intriguing antagonist. Ren doesn't exist to be Rey's reluctant ally, just as much as Rey doesn't exist to save Ren. This story needs to be fair to not just Ren and Rey, but every character. The writers have a big task ahead of them, and I can't wait to see what they deliver.

 

Maybe I don't understand this "ship" stuff. Is Reylo just a mental exercise or you guys and gals seriously believe and are arguing that Reylo will happen? Because if I had to set odds I would say 80% Finn, 15% Poe, 4.9 % New character, 0.1% Kylo.

 

I did notice that, though it didn't seem to hit him as hard as it did to Obi-Wan. I would like to see more people interact with the force albeit in very subtle ways, not nearly as strongly as Jedi.

 

Leia uses the force like an intuition, a feeling more so than physicality. She can sense emotions. Which is why I think she possibly sensed her son having an emotion towards Rey

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Busted!
It's ok though, I think it's pretty common.

 

Yes, speaking of height, I just realized that Daisy is 1.70, so she's fairly tall, or even average. Now, Fisher is 1.55 (kind of like me, yay for representation!), and Driver is 1.91. I really, really, really want to see Leia hugging her son! Or at least interacting with him.

And again, height difference is kind of cool. Look at Han and Leia. These scenes would not be half as sweet had she been taller:

 

I fully understand that Kylo Ren could be redeemed. I also think it's possible he won't be. I feel like it's 50/50. JJ talked about building a villain from the ground up. I expect that at the very least, Kylo will mature as a villain before he is redeemed (if he is). One poster makes the point that they have to be careful of trivializing the concept of redemption if they keep doing it. It shouldn't seem like an easy thing to have happen. OTOH, the Skywalker line is sort of uniquely presented as containing a strong presence of darkness and light, so I think they can avoid that problem with Kylo being redeemed. I go back and forth on what I want even. I think Kylo Ren is a fantastic villain, and the thought of building him up as the ultimate villain (one theory is he will kill Snoke and take his place) has a lot of appeal to me. He would be scary as hell. OTOH, I'm heartbroken for Leia. The sentimental side of me wants Kylo's redemption for Luke and Leia, and I want his redemption be about them and his memory of Han.

But all this talk of Kylo is a different thing from discussing Rey potentially wanting Kylo. It doesn't matter if Kylo's ultimate goal is somewhat more understandable to the general audience than simply killing all the Jedi. That's great, but from the perspective of Rey's pov, irrelevant. Kylo didn't need to murder defenseless Han to achieve balance in the force. Rey, a girl that values family above all else, a girl that yearns to belong and forgives her family for abandoning her, watched Han approach Kylo defenseless, with open arms, and Kylo Ren impaled him. And Han wasn't a stranger to Rey. TFA made it clear she views him as a father figure. She felt accepted by him, looked up to him, wanted to stay with him. She only said she couldn't because she yearned that strongly for her own family that left her. Kylo literally was offered everything Rey wants (love, a home, a family) and he didn't just walk away. He slaughtered him. And Rey watched it happen.

 

You are entitled to your opinion same as anyone else, we could all be wrong no denying it. It's just so much research, deep research has been brought up to make the ship stronger, I actually came to this thread to say it was not going to happen, but when I saw what was being brought up in terms of the way it was made, the way it connects to the OT and PT I had to accept it because there was just too much evidence given to me. I'm not talking about wishful thinking here, or a fascination people have with villains being connected to someone romantically, or a Twilight or 50 shades thing..... I really can't put into words what I am trying to say, only that the people behind these stories don't just put stuff on paper, they put such a deep deep amount of effort into it.
Yes, Finn has the potential to be connected to Rey romantically, no denying it at all, but no other evidence came up to back it up besides what was on screen. So that is why I changed my initial thoughts.
I try and tell people, watch the PT and hold the idea in your mind that you have no notion at all about what way the story will go.... Like you have no idea, little Anakin will become Darth Vader, will get his legs chopped off by the young man who he shakes hands with saying "Obi-Wan, it's good to meet you" and they both become best friends. Now, in the mind, imagine not knowing that the very guy who he shakes hands with is one day going to leave him in lava to die! Walking away after chopping his legs off!!
Pretty heavy stuff and shocking when you have the idea that you have no idea what will happen and even though we do, it's shocking either way, so with Kylo and Rey, it could also be quite a shocker to see her fall in love with the man who killed his dad, and she fought with a scared

When all the films are over with, if Rey and Kylo do hook up, people will rewatch it and say, how did I not see it coming.

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How is Finn submissive or beta. From the beginning of the film he is leading Rey in the right direction. Grabbed her hand even though she asked him not to. When she tells him she won't allow him to leave he doesn't go beta and says yes ma'am. He tells her to take care and tries to GTFO of there because he knew what was headed their way. I'm assuming you think Kylo is alpha so I ask what is so alpha about a 29 year old man baby that wrecks his room every time something doesn't go his way. Kylo is weak, Finn is the strong one.

 

That is what is happening........ so far......

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Ok since I see that there is superior knowledge with knowing what is exactly going to happen episode 8 and so on my question is if everything is about symbolism and finn is just a jar jar comic relief why does is it that finn is the first character to possess Anakin Luke Skywalker's light saber couldn't Kylo ren find another way to retrieve the saber from finn... I mean he can stop laser rays in mid air grab people in choke holds from afar why couldn't Kylo just snatch the saber out of his hands or is it this is just another type of ginnie PIG jar jar moment with finn?

 

So help me understand, most will agree that Rey is the new Skywalker. Which makes Kylo her first cousin.... You see where I'm going here.

 

I think Kylo just wanted to get it without violence? Sounds weird...
I know however..... Finn initiates the fight. Kylo doesn't, in fact does Kylo Ren initiate anything? He didn't even initiate his dad to come near him, Han chose to.


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We're going to have to agree to disagree, as I wouldn't say there's a 50/50 shot of Ren being redeemed. The foreshadowing in The Force Awakens makes it as inevitable as Rey being tempted by the Dark Side in Episode VIII. You have to consider every character involved. Ren was established in a very specific manner, and while he'll progress further down the road of villainy for now, he can only go so far. As an audience, most of us have a desire to see Ren pull himself back up, even if that desire is subconscious. We don't just expect it, we need it to happen in order for this trilogy to come full-circle. The Force Awakens illustrates Rey and Ren as the two most pivotal characters to the overarching narrative. Ren isn't going to die, and he most certainly isn't going to die a villain. The writers are so excited about him as a character, and there's a reason. Ren's death makes Han's sacrifice a complete waste, squanders Ren's potential and leaves Leia with nothing. She isn't going to lose her brother, her husband, her son, hang on to hope, only to watch him fall away permanently without his development being neatly tied up. It's just bad writing, and I truly believe the people behind this trilogy are competent enough to redeem Ren without trivializing everything he has done.

I agree, I don't think Rey will ever "want" Ren the way the Reylo shippers are implying. It'll go beyond sexual attraction or romantic infatuation. Based on what The Force Awakens gave us, the potential in their connection is worth more to the story than that. Their bond will lead to a place none of us can truly foresee. I guess we'll just have to wait, of course. I could be wrong. Thanks for the interesting perspective!

 

I do yes and I'm guessing you haven't read the thread.
I'm just gonna say that Rey being a Skywalker is too obvious. First cousin dynamic I don't think is strong enough not for Star Wars at least.
Ben is the Skywalker. By blood line. Most of the people out there see Rey being the Skywalker because all the hints are there, it's the catch of the day.....lure people in and give them a twist. I personally believe she won't be a Skywalker. Not because I am a Reylo fan but because it's too obvious. Colin director of Episode 9 said Reys reveal will be profoundly satisfying. Now everyone has guessed the same thing, he said this after reading all the theorys. Now the theory of Rey being the Skywalker isn't profoundly satisfying. It's what everyone has guessed and chosen to believe.

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Ah yes, the old switcharoo. I've noticed the FinnReyers tend to resort to distractions and apples vs oranges when they don't have an adequate counter-point to the debate presented here.
Domestic abuse? Is that what you think we want to happen here? For the thousandth time, nobody here is advocating for Rey to engage in a relationship with a man who treats her like dirt. I'm pretty sure that Rey won't allow Kylo Ren to torture and bully her if they are in a romantic relationship. Nor do I want to see Rey date Kylo Ren while he is still the villain here. Seriously, I don't know how many times I've had to type these words, but I'm hoping by some miracle it will get through this time. If it doesn't, too bad because I am done with the same tired back and forth.

 

This is why I'm on this thread, day in day out. I had my doubts about what Reylo is shipping (and I made my concerns clear a while back), and I don't, in any way, expect a classic romance storyline. To be honest, I'm pretty certain it won't happen. The characters are too interesting and complex to fit them simply in a mold. On the other hand, look at how many Reylo shippers have left the cinema after TFA believing there to be some sort of intriguing connection between Rey and Kylo Ren. This is why the thread is here.

But I must agree with you, their relationship will probably evolve to somewhere you can't really predict. Hopefully, it will be a profound connection to build upon what we have already seen. I am a Reylo shipper to the extent that at least their relationship will be taken to an in-depth level. I can't expect more than that.

 

So Kylo killed his father because of self defense or are you saying his father shouldn't have went near his son? I thought he told rey and finn were not done what was that implying did he want a sit down to hash things out? He did murder the old man in cold blood and initiated that killing.

 

Apologies, I forgot to discuss one of the most interesting things in your response. The dynamic between Rey and Ren was very intentional, and handled with extreme care. There is so much subtext written into their connection. He isn't just the villain that counters Rey's status as the hero, he represents everything she can never understand. He came from everything, but gave it up, denounced it and despised it. She would have done anything to be in his position. Ren is the direct and literal opposite of Rey, and there's no doubt that's one of the things Reylo shippers consider to be so intriguing. By the end of the movie Ren has become everything Rey should hate, yet their connection — however you want to label it — is going to be pivotal to the future of this story. She'll have to face him again, and in doing so, face her deepest fears, that everything she's been waiting for her whole life won't live up to her expectations.

 

I never said Kylo was defending himself..... Snoke wants Kylo to kill his father. It's obvious because Snoke, after Han is killed says it's time to complete his training. I'm not saying he should not have went near Kylo Ren he's every right to, but Kylo Ren says he has been waiting for this day for a long time.
Now Kylo Ren, is told by Snoke "even you master of the Knights of Ren, have never fasted such a test".
Ren replys "by the grace of your training I won't be seduced"
Snoke "we shall see"

Kylo is pulled by the light throughout the film. It's safe to assume he didn't want to meet his dad or have his dad approach him. Purely because he possibly didn't want to kill him. He did though and I think it shuck him greatly.

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Dude, he killed her mentor and paralyzed her only friend for sport. In what world do you live in where a person would let that slide let alone fall in love with this type of person. In what world do people fall in love with their torturer just because the torture stopped. It's irrational. Stockholm syndrome maybe. Rey's not that weak.