ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Wonderful post!

I just wanted to add one small thing... I feel like if they go down the route of making Rey the lost skywalker/golden child of Luke who kills the evil Kylo Ren, it will be like saying that Leia was important while she was young and able to flaunt that metal bikini...but now that she is older, she is a crazy warmonger who has lost everything and almost everyone she cared about....it would be an awful message to give to viewers....and if they plan episodes X-XII, will we see Rey sidelined for the next young female phenomenon?

 

Seeing the mentions of Anakin/Padme... even though that entire love story was a cinematic travesty (except for beautiful scenery and some of Padme's outfits - NOT the S&M one though in that video above!), it's fair to say that epic romance runs strong in Kylo's family He has a duty to keep up that tradition.

 

i feel like killing leia's son off follows a kind of atavistic desire of having to excise that which you don't understand from everything. it would really get everyone back to square one in terms of what draws people to the dark side, what it means to be a force user. it'd be so backwards. when luke goes to vader to bring him back and does so at a great risk, that was the first step, whatever has gone wrong between everyone, it'd be an absolute waste of story potential to kill the person off who can learn and bring that knowledge to the next generation.

i get very annoyed when stories don't follow through with their metaphors. i got excited through one of the pirates of the caribbeans sequels where we meet davy jones who keeps his heart hidden in a locker and is in love with the sea and it just all descended into chaos and i spent a considerable amount of time ranting about that. and i was pleasantly surprised when watching avatar and thinking that it can follow its own metaphor really well and it actually makes sense.

never mind leia. i mean, i love leia, but i wouldn't bend the story just to serve her. and can i just say that i hate her garb in TFA? carrie fisher called it 'classy gas station attendant' and i so agree.

 

It cost you $10? Wow I hate England. It cost me £18 which is like $25.

In terms of the discussion of rey and the skywalker liniage. I don't think we have to worry about who she is, there are enough visual clues to suggest that the feelings Ren has towards her are not cousinly. The interrogation scene was shot with every single moment, planned out by the filmmakers. It's a very important scene and the way they decided to have him read her mind so close to her and looking at her lips? They even make it obvious that he looks at her lips he tilts his head so he can get a better look at them, it's also clear that this is no coincidence that this island he's talking about is her calming place and he's calmed by looking at her when he says this line.

Also its funny how he's basically found Luke's location here but totally misses it all because he is far too distracted by her face and looks to notice it's significance.

 

You know what, panki, now that you've said that, what I really want to see in the next film is Kylo having a similar vision to Rey's, where the tables have turned and the roles have swapped, and he is the one being chased down by her. Not only is that a symmetry, but hints at a force bond. Also, I'd like to know what a terrified Kylo looks like.

Right?! London is the biggest pain when it comes to the cinema. Even the shabbiest costs you a fortune. *sigh*

 

Oh gosh, and i've just realised something. My education and life has been based around filmmaking and film study since I was in college and how the hell it's taken me so long to notice what i'm about to say I have no idea. This is also very interesting to those who believe in the force bond theory.

Its no secret that Lucas basically used Campbell's heroes journey as a template for the very first Star Wars film, Campbell noticed a pattern with storytelling which can be applied to most stories through all of human history. Usually the most successful ones have this kind of template. Its also no secret that TFA pays homage to this original method of storytelling.

So Im going to talk about the first 4 steps we have:

1. Rey in her ordinary world, her conflicts about leaving Jakku or not.
2. Rey's true call to adventure happens when Obi Wan calls to her through the lightsaber and also when Maz tells her to take the weapon. Maz is not a Yoda, Yoda was the mentor in the original stories, Maz does not fit into this role simply because:
3. Rey refuses her's and Obi wan's call and runs into the woods where she is pursued, not by her enemy BUT:
4: HER MENTOR, who somehow subconsciously teaches her what she needs in order to continue with her quest.

The fact that Kylo takes this spot of Mentor and not Maz, Luke, Finn or anyone else is incredible in terms of narrative structure. Its actually Kylo who helps set her on her journey to becoming a Jedi.

 

yes, I've seen it, it was screened at the Venice Film Festival the year before Hungry Hearts (when I first took notice of Adam) but unfortunately I had missed that one! I managed to watch it last year!
Well, he's such a dork even in Girls, especially in the first season! Did you notice the way he stands still, swaying a bit ( I'm not sure it's the right term), looking totally uncomfortable and awkward when he's unable to express his feelings? He's so goofy, yet adorable

 

Exactly. It would be the right thing to do if they want the ST to have a long lasting legacy that stands on its own, without the huge shadow of original trilogy. The next film will definitely resolve that. Instead of conforming to the ideals of the society, the film makers must challenge them even more. If it comes in the form of dark, gripping, bittersweet Kylo/Rey connection/bond/relationship, why not? I'd rather be blown away by that instead of cgi effects, which will be outdated after a decade or so.

 

From Reylo's fans in China. (Many thanks to you guys, I can't spell you guys name because I can't read Chinese very well )



All these pictures are from The Force Awakens art book.

 

Oh my God, I've missed so much someone update me with a few small sentences!

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yes, I had this feeling, that the Force is bringing them together (even in a platonic relationship).
In this light, the fighting scene is highly symbolic.
However, I don't want to dismiss his evil deeds, I think that he still doesn't understand which kind of ally she could be, maybe he's still thinking about turning her to the dark side. As a result, Rey's vision are about the threat she's facing: falling to the dark side. In a way, the Force is bringing them together but is still protecting her. DOes that make any sense?

 

One thing I noticed was his wording in the teacher thing. Villains usual say I can show you the dark side. He says I can show you the ways of the force, very odd so I don't think he was within his dark self. Like the vision, in the real forest event his mask is off, which to me means he is Ben Solo when he wants Rey and he's trying to disarm her. Finn, he just hates Finn in general. He brought his father back and started all of this. He has the girl which Kylo wants and probably needs because he's an emotional wreck.

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That would be interesting. Would he finally see her as a threat, or a formidable, destined ally he must have? I can imagine Snoke trying to corrupt Kylo's thoughts of Rey and using his defeat to make him feel paranoid of her, but Kylo's still ongoing 'pull to the light' conflict and fascination with Rey will complicate that.

 

I think kylo definitely had a vision which was brought on by an object much like rey did. He asks his grandfather to show him something again when looking at vaders mask. Is anakin sending forcebacks through it? Or snoke pretending to be anakin?

 

Did anyone notice right.... When Rey has her vision, in the book version when she hears someone saying "I'll come back for you" she is running through the forest saying "I'm here I'm right here, were are you" and then Kylo Ren pops out. Hmmm

And when Maz says someone could come back Rey doesn't say Luke. I think the someone is Ben tbh

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There are just so many paralells between Luke and Rey's hero journeys that make me believe the twist will be that she's not a Skywalker.These so called clues that she's Luke's are just so into your face and not subtle and no the fact that young chidlren watch these movie is not ane xcuse making it so obvious Rey's a Skywalker if that's what they're aiming for.Take GOT for example Jon will probably most likely turn out to be a Targareyn but the clues planted in the books are very subtle and once you start connecting the dots it makes sence and it's not like 99% of the people beliving that theory came to that conclusion a day after the first book was released.It took them years to pieace all the information they have and even now they're finding newer things.That's not the case with Rey Skywalker theory and eventhough on first gance it makes you think that she ahs to be Luke's daughter once you actually start to think of plausbale explanations as to why Luke would abandon his daughter on an awful planet like Jakku it gets convulted and really hard to make Luke a sympathetic character.
As for Leia being the lesser Skywalker,this sooo true but hinestly I think ti refeflects more on how the OT trilogy treated Leia as a lesser Skywalker.I know it wasn't planned for her to be a Skywalker and Luke was the main hero of the trilogy but in retrospect or for those who don't know Lucas never intended for them to eb related it coems off as Luke being the superior and more pwerful of the Skywalker twins because characters like Yoda and Ben treated him as such.IN ESB for example they're willing to let Leia be tortured or even die because in their eyes Luke is their only hope.Yes,in ESB Leia still wasn't intended to be Luke's sister but Ben once again showed a smilair type of thinking in RTJ when it was revealed Leia was Luke's sister.Eventhough Leia has the same amount of potentail as Luke Ben still viewed Luke as their only hope of bringing down Vader and the Emperor.I've also mentioned in another post how Leia learning she was a Skywalker was sweot under the rug and sued as a plot device to try and turn Luke to the Dark Side.The truth is some of the fans adopted a simialr kind fo thinking from the writers who treated Leia as their second option to bringing peace to the galaxy after Luke so I don't find it all that surprising that now they believe Rey is somewhat superior than Kylo because she's Luke's kid eventhough that hasn't been confirmed.
I think what I find sadder is that fans who loved Han and leia are more than ok for Kylo to die unredeemed because in tehir eyes he's a spoiled brat who had everything yet threw it away.We don't know much about Kylo's backstory yet but it's so frustrating how misdunderstood he's been by some people.
Now,I have to make a confession 99% of me loves and admires Rey and belives she has lots of potential to be a very complex heroine but another percent kind of hates how they didn't wrote her as complex and comlicated as they did with Kylo.Yes,she's the heroine of the trilogy but there are so many issues she could ptentially deal with like her abandonment by her parents and the hard life she had on Jakku but they just didn't explore any of that.It's the first movie so I'll give them a pass but if it wasn't for the beautiful blogs dedicated on Rey on tumblr and this thread here many people probably won't notcie that Rey has issues of her own that could be just as bad as those Kylo has not to emntion the brilliant plot tiwst that could be the Force bound.Those who're not awrae such a thing even exist probably thinks Rey is some kind of a Jedi Godess or soemthing.I really hope they atke more risks with Rey in the next movie and take her off the pidestal many fans have put her on.Don't get me wrong it's perfectly fine to love and admire a character but when you become blinded by the fact that that character can make mistakes you're left dissapointed.

 

Snoke pretending to be Anakin seems to be the more plausible scenario. It adds more to what Leia said about 'Snoke is manipulating Ben ever since he was a child.'

 

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I think making Rey Luke's daughetr would show even more the kind of bias they have that Luke's superior than Leia.Seriously,I've said it before but why not make Kylo Luke's son?Why take away everything Leia has when she's lost so much already.And yeah people would say that Luke has suffered as well but at the end he would be reuinted with his daughter while Leia has to watch her son either die or be exiled or in prison for the crimes he's commited.How is that fair for Leia as a character and hers and Han's lefacy?And if Luke is Rey's father then the script shouldn't have describe Leia and Rey's hug as a ''mother's embrace'',IMO.

 

Kylo why are you crying now?

Kylo: Because Rey doesn't want to be my student :'( and she ran away!



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is that tracks the one with mia wasikowska in the desert?

 

Call me crazy, but I actually have a little... I guess you can call it a "theory" about why the writers chose to describe Leia's hug as a "mother's embrace." It also further explains why Rey came to view Han Solo as a father-figure after very little interaction. It's interesting in itself that both Han and Leia are, at one point, referred to as "parents" with regards to Rey. Yes, they are of parental age and are both mentor-figures, but let's take the potential Force Bond into this for a second as well. We all know that a connection of that caliber would allow Rey to feel Ren's emotions to a certain extent. Who are Kylo Ren's mother and father again? Rey's overwhelming feelings of parental attachment to Han and to an even greater extent Leia, with whom she barely interacted, can definitely be tied into the Force Bond equation as well. Actually, one could make the argument that Rey currently feels as though Leia and Luke are family, if she is indeed feeling an intimate attachment to them through Ben Solo. The way she looks at Luke in the final scene is just incredibly heartbreaking. There is desperation, but there could also be guilt in her. She is absolutely falling apart in front of this man she's never met before.

I don't think the evidence is conclusive, just an interesting tidbit I spotted when I was scanning the script.

 

i think it sort of is explored but subtly.

it's in how happy she is for people to come back for her. it's in how hardened she is, how easily she fights these guys for BB8...isn't she called a desert rat in the film, desert scum? something like that. just a scavenger...

but i agree, i have trouble connecting with her, and to a degree i think that is because she didn't surprise me. i always knew she was going to come out on top of the interrogation, i knew she would be able to fly the MF, she wouldn't sell BB8... she would not lose against kylo ren. i just never had any doubt.

i have a problem with how much female character need to be kickass to count as strong. i don't kick literal ass, i don't think of myself as weak, ... male characters tend to get the complexity and adventure. to a degree that's been subverted with her, she goes on a great adventure, kylo ren is the one stuck and unable to go home. there's other subversion going on with her. but still... i need a more explicit struggle.

i need her to become aware of the anger she holds towards the people who abandoned her. and if there's going to be jedi training, i want this to be present. she is a kindly person, she likes to help out and she is very competent but she hasn't addressed any of her feelings, because she hasn't had time. there's no one in her life to explore that with.

i think the filmmakers are very busy establishing likeability and connecting finn and rey with the audience. they have all the cute and the adventurous and the action, kylo ren gets the stately and grave stuff. i think this has to change in the next film.

that's eloquent

we talked. A LOT. gothic lit, ... sex... interrogation, costumes, ... the prospect of killing off kylo ren. cats.

i really would like to do it all justice but it's becoming a massive blur.

 

I agree. The Force is steering her towards things connected with Ren, isn't it? The MF, his family... Most viewers interpreted these signs as her being a Solo, then as her being a Skywalker, but all of it could be explained with a deep connection to Ren himself.


I also suspect that if there’s a Force bond, it’s something predestined, the Force bringing them together for a shared purpose. Regular Force bonds form slowly over time, even between family members, so them being cousins or fellow padawans who happened to meet as children wouldn’t explain anything at all. It would make more sense if they were twins who were close as children, but they’re obviously not twins.

Why would the Force pick those two, though. As a Rey Palpatine truther I have my wacky theories, but this is the question that puzzles me most.


By the way, I know the Bastila/Revan Force bond gets mentioned a lot because they were lovers, but the Force bond between Kreia and the Exile is possibly even more relevant here because it was abnormally strong and it involved the kind of passing of skills that seems to be going on with Rey and Ren. It also introduced the concept of feeling the other person’s physical pain and a strong Force bond even being potentially fatal if the other dies. The Kreia/Exile storyline says some interesting things about the nature of the Force itself, though Kreia isn’t averse to lying so it’s hard to say how much of that was true even within the context of the game.

 

It actually seems to be a bit of a misconception that Force Bonds form slowly. I've never read anything from the EU, but I have done research and it appears as though Bonds can be forged in an instant or over a span of time, by sharing a near-death experience with someone or even by being imbued in some way through the Force by a powerful Force-user. That definitely happened to Rey in the interrogation. Anyway, I don't think a lot of pre-existing Legends lore relating to Force Bonds matters anymore. The writers might change a lot of it to better suit the medium of film, make it less convoluted for your typical movie-goer, all that. They're going to have tor reintroduce the concept entirely, and it would be good time to simplify it as well. They might not even use the term Force Bond, though if this is a plot-point, I personally see no need to change the title.

I definitely agree that Rey and Ren were predisposed to form a Bond. The Force chose them. The comparisons to Kreia and Exile definitely seem to fit Ren and Rey's situation better.