ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Not much to add except that Rey and Kylo definitely transcend Gothic Romance so they cannot be just boxed into that category, nor its shippers only look for that type of romance in this ship. I love them because they are very unique creation and even though I can recognize elements of many influences and archetypes (from timeless fairytales to something as modern as Spike and Buffy), there's just so much that's their own, including gender role reversal that is done differently from other movies/shows that do this. Also, the level of epic is just above and beyond anything I've ever seen. the much discussed scene with world crumbling around them is a big reason for such huge appeal. People are drawn to epic scope and romances with such scope are very rare. but they are SW tradition.

 

<3

 

Great movie and actor. Also check out Lust,Caution. You see A LOT of him in that.

 

Thanks for this post! I think it's fair enough to expect just this level of impartiality from Moderators. Very professional. This thread has—at times—become both a breeding ground for hate and an echo chamber of sorts, with two sides repeating the same justifications and defences for not just hours, but weeks. I for one have decided to Ignore all those who engage in such repetition from now on. Polite and intelligent debate can lead to the strengthening of viewpoints on both sides, but once I've read an argument fifty times I can safely say that reading it fifty more times won't change my opinion. That's when the Ignore feature should come into play.

I want to make this thread a more positive place for visitors and Moderators. I can't even imagine how irritating it must be to have to follow this thread with eagle-eyes just to make sure a fistfight doesn't break out. This is the first time I've ever engaged in debate of this kind, but I assume it's always like this. Perspectives are a tricky thing... I don't ship, but I definitely lean toward pro-Reylo. That has more to do with my love of complex character and narrative interpretation and coming-of-age storytelling than it does opinion.

I've written several theory essays about Rey and Ren and I started one about Finn a few days ago... hoping to reach that common ground.

 

@AshokaSolo
"Another thing. At this point we can't assume that Kylo will be infatuated with Rey going forward. After all, she shunned what he offered her, humiliated him and scarred up his face. Kylo seems like the type that would hold grudges ya know? I mean, he runs Han through for not being an ideal father, apparently, so I'm guessing that he may have worse intentions regarding Rey. Not that it's going to go down like that, but knowing what we know about Kylo, it does make sense."


I'd argue that what the novelization puts on the page, the movie has on screen, at least in terms of Ren's approach towards interrogating Rey. Doesn't make it any less of an interrogation, but the two scenes are so very different in tone.

If we hadn't seen Ren begging DV for a sign to confirm the powet of the dark, I'd be more inclined to believe Ren wouldn't change in any positive way.

But we do see Ren beg for a sign. By the end of TFA, I think he gets two answers.
*Killing his father does not make Ren stronger - he's then beaten by Finn and Rey, two untrained nobodies (in his view).
*Kylo Ren cannot summon Luke's lightsaber - it rejects his call.

Kylo Ren may be a gigantic mess of contradictions, but he's not stupid or blindly self-confident. I can see Snoke or Hux continuing on the same path and expecting a better result, but not Kylo Ren.

 

I did not hear this, but I am bad at auditory things ... just ask my husband who hears *everything*! Lol!

However, I had a pretty terrible thought when I read the description of what you heard. What if it recalls a memory where a younger Ben is screaming because Snoke is torturing him in his head and Han literally slams the door on him because either (1) The force in his kid actually scares Han, (2) Han thinks Ben is Vader-ish and just makes things up to start trouble, or (3) Han is scared to death that Ben really is Vader-ish and getting some "dark side symptoms" and Han just cannot deal with the implications of that, so he runs off. Under any of those scenarios Ben would be left to the mercy of Snoke without any help. If he was left on his own enough with the Snoke manipulation, a Stockholm Syndrome type of thing could start to happen ... where Snoke, though horribly cruel sometimes, is always there with him ... where Snoke, in a terrible, twisted way is always "loyal" to him. I don't know enough about the psychology of abuse, but I know that due to atrocious psychological damage that many abuse victims can identify with, become loyal towards, enmeshed with and/or be unable to individuate or psychologically separate from their abusers. We've talked in the thread before how Snoke's crazymaking would cause dependency. If no one interfered in that process, a dependency would be virtually guaranteed.

Ah man, just the whole thought of Han slamming the door on him sends a chill up my spine. That would be beyond terrible if Han was so disturbed by the force's incomprehensible effect on his son and/or scared of the Vader lineage that he would shut himself off from his son. Ooooohhhh, that would make Han look really bad and Kylo's situation even sadder. Could Han have really been that emotionally irresponsible? Is that why Leia didn't tell him? If Han actually rejected him like that on a continuing basis, is that why Kylo could actually go through with killing him even though he desperately didn't want to? Could it be almost like a fight in Kylo's head between his "two fathers" ... Han and Snoke? Ooooohhhh, scary thoughts!

 

The best one i found that was affordable, well sculpted, and had decent poseability was the 16 inch Disney Store exclusive Talking Kylo Ren figure.
Check the Disney Store website to see if they are still available...i bought mine back in January.
About $30, a little more if purchased online with shipping costs.

It*s a great figure of him.
Nicely detailed, but with flexible vinyl for his clothing and hood...alas, not fabric.
I highly recommend it, as it*s a nice display piece.

Best part however is that it says nine (9) quotes from TFA in Adam Driver*s voice at the push of a button.
Yes you heard me folks... a figure that speaks in Adam*s actual real voice.... are you paying attention, Ladies?


Next best thing is the detailed lightsaber in his hand lights up and makes movie authentic sounds with the push of a button on his arm.
Kylo Ren lightsaber sounds at that, too.....which all die hard fans know is unique to his saber alone.

It is a awesome figure...just wish it had fabric clothing and a removable mask..but for $30, it was well worth the purchase.
Love it.

I will not comment on how often i push the button to hear him say something though....
Better left unsaid at this point.

Sayings are -
* I am immune to the Light*
* Together, we will destroy the Resistance and the last Jedi*
* Is it true.....that you*re just a scavenger....?*
*Don*t be afraid*
*I feel it too...*
* I have been waiting for this day for a long time...*
* That weapon is MINE ! *
*Don*t fight it..! You know you can*t...*
* No one will stand in our way....no one.*
* You know what i*ve come for..*

Some of those lines can be oh-so-easily used to fuel all sorts of fantastic imaginings......
Oh totally.

Oh my......
( blushes )

 

Just saw J.J.'s Abrams Ted Talk about mystery box... And TFA is definitely his best mystery box ever.

 

I wanted to go back to this because I just love that Rey and Kylo don't have to pretend with each other. He shows her his completely vulnerable side - his bleeding wound, his emotional wreckage, his deepest desire (that he wants to be with her which is the gist of the teacher line) - and she shows him her most ferocious side. But at this moment, he is accepting her as she is while she's rejecting him as he is (understandable) so that's a great dynamics and has long-term potential to go through changes.

And previously, surprise came when she learned that she's a FS. So both times Kylo triggered surprising side of Rey or was the catalyst for it to come out in the open. While process is the opposite with him. She triggers his vulnerability and puts him in touch with Lighter feelings.

Kylo Ren's 8-Pack But talking doll can't unmask, right? I want one that can unmask. I love his face so much plus he and Rey doll could kiss.

Sforza Reylo is JJ's best Mystery Box ever. That was the first time ever I thanked JJ for keeping stuff mysterious. I didn't expect such incredible surprise.

 

I don't see Rey as a victim. I don't believe she sees herself as a victim.

I read this article a few days ago and it chimes so much with my own feelings and experiences http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/21/o...ch-girls-that-its-cute-to-be-scared.html?_r=0 I hated it when anyone tried to box me into the traditional girl stereotype. I was always more of a tomboy and I wanted to play like boys played and with the kinds of toys they played with. We do girls a great injustice by teaching them they are lesser in any way.

I had a whole treatise planned on how I don't regard Reylo as an abusive ship, but I realised I'd only be preaching to the choir and it wouldn't do anything to sway those who disagree. The comment that irked me regarding that issue wasn't on here, anyway. It was someone elsewhere comparing Reylo with a ship I could personally never support and find as distasteful as some on these boards find Reylo, namely JessGrave (Jessica Jones and Kilgrave). Anyway, I'm gonna go and watch iZombie (which I love and if you don't watch it and loved Buffy, you're missing a treat! IMO, of course!)

 

From what I've seen, any and all assertions of abuse targeted at the concept of Reylo are specifically confined to the walls of Tumblr. Tumblr is just that kind of place. The people on this website are quite respectful for the most part.

Now, what fatigues me on here is having to constantly see the same arguments thrown about in response to Kylo Ren's character. From my perspective, crucial aspects of his development over the course of The Force Awakens are often consciously ignored – the fact that murdering his father left him "weakened," "horrified," and "shocked," for instance. I don't care if people take issue with the concept of Reylo. Given what we were presented with in the context of TFA, they have a right to. Every discussion that goes on here is done with the assumption that these characters are going to evolve, to transform, to be challenged, warped, and twisted by the writers behind Star Wars.

Not one person here ships Rey with the angry, temperamental, conflicted, childish Kylo Ren presented to us in The Force Awakens. What we see is the potential for these characters to develop. People who are intrigued by this dynamic really ship Rey with whoever Kylo Ren emerges as following the development he goes through in episodes 8 and 9.

 

Captain Phasma:

“On my command”

“Submit your blaster for inspection.”

“Fire FN 2187”

 

I have about 5-6 bookcases of Mystery/ Fantasy that use the tops of to display my collection from my infamous ROTS merchandise binge. No regrets!

 

The fact that he cannot unmask has not stopped my action figures from getting friendly......








-

 

For real though, this person reposted my comment xD

http://ice-and-fire-collide.tumblr.com/post/139117389791/reylophos-a-plot-twist-that-i-cant-believe

 

Has anyone tried placing Kylo and Rey's themes together?

Something sounds oddly similar in her main part and his main part, like it could be reversed and sound like his,

 

There was a podcast a while back discussing the music in the film. Apparently the last three notes of Ren's theme are the first three notes of Rey's in reverse, so yeah, you're right. There are other similarities too. They're written to directly follow each other. When you hear one, you expect to hear the other.

 

This should be the answer to the title of this thread.

Kylo Ren is a working progress so he shouldn't be dismissed, but he's not ready to be Rey's romantic partner or lover. So is Rey and Kylo love story possible? No. But Rey and Ben Solo story is. It can happen.

 

http://reyloismyotpandiamtrash.tumb...reys-theme-vs-kylos-motif-and-why-theyre-more
http://kylo-rey-all-day-erry-day.tu...lo-ren-reys-theme-songs-straight-out-of-kotor
Tumblr has been all over this.

 

Also. congrats on that post, you need to publish your essay because pesky people will pinch it! I wish that person credited you because that post got about 1500 people noting it.

In terms of Ren's theme, I noticed that when we first meet him, we hear it in it's full polished incredible glory with trumpets and everything, towards the end its just a shell of what we first heard when he entered.

 

I agree so much. It's not just a feminine power fantasy, not just a mixture of familiar Gothic and fairytale tropes and unique gender reversals and so on - it's all of this on an epic scale. I agree that romances with such scope are very rare, especially ones that are done well. They're all too easy to do badly, either by making the epic scope of it all seem stiff and impersonal, or by bringing the epic down to the mundane level to tell the love story of characters who don't measure up to the epicness of their surroundings. The epic potential here is incredible and it's personified in two strong characters.

It's hard to explain the appeal to anyone who doesn't "get it" because I'm in love with a story that hasn't been told yet. It might never even be told. It would be a damned waste of incredible potential, but it's possible that it never happens. If it doesn't happen, I'll have to write it myself in some other form...


Force22 and vaderito - I agree. Hu Ge is smokin' hot, and intense to boot. The same actors seem to crop up in the wuxia genre all the time, but that's hardly surprising; it's basically historical soap opera with mythology and martial arts, so it calls for a specific type of actor. Lots of things in common with SW of course, starting with the narrative importance of master-apprentice relationships and the temptations of the Dark Side, to even specific skills like the Force push and the Force lightning (well, that's not what they're called in wuxia, but you get my drift).

I wouldn't have thought of wuxia as a direct influence on the ST, but I confess Disney's scrapped Order of the Seven project made me pay attention to more similarities than I'd otherwise have noticed, especially with Michael Arndt as the writer. The original title appears to have been Snow and the Seven!

 

All the posters who have been writing about the feminine power fantasy aspect are just knocking it out of the park!!! It's just been such a pleasure to read your thoughts.

And for me all these thoughts just crystallize in Kylo's beautiful reaction shot when she catches the lightsaber. He has ruined much of his life, and she is on her way to taking the rest of it away from him down to not just the lightsaber, but also his mother, his could-have-been position, even his darn Dad's spaceship .... and still ... STILL ... at this most wretched moment of his life .... his face screams, "Who cares about all that! You are just the most amazing, beautiful, hottest thing alive!!"​

​

Like darth_frared said, Kylo has a lot of problems, but being concerned with being less impressive than his potential love interest is not one of them. She's just too amazing to get caught up with all that nonsense! ... Oh yeah, I think vaderito is right. Reylo is a thing. The filmmakers could not have missed this dynamic they are setting up here ... not when JJ was a showrunner for a show like Alias.​

 

LOL SO THEY CAN KISSS

btw I must buy this. Somehow, someway. Me buying this WILL become canon.

 

So, can the title of this thread be changed to reflect this?

 

Ren is male but his name means queen, Rey is female but her name means King, thats another shout out to yin and yang right there. One side is male with a female aspect, one part is female with a male aspect. The black is male with the female aspect inside, white is the female with the male aspect inside.

A starting definition: Yin / Yang : Two halves that together complete wholeness. Yin and yang are also the starting point for change. When something is whole, by definition it is unchanging and complete. So when you split something into two halves – yin / yang, it upsets the equilibrium of wholeness. This starts both halves chasing after each other as they seek a new balance with each other.

KYLO REN EVERYONE^^^and yes I think even Rey is doing this in a sense!


The word Yin comes out to mean “shady side” and Yang “sunny side”. (first comes the day, then comes the night anyone?)

Yin Yang is the concept of duality forming a whole.