ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Big Boss

Can't disagree cause that's the part of fun. We know when we are over-analyzing and slipping into fanfiction. Like Virgin!Kylo. I don't take it seriously but I'm having fun over-analysing it and reading about it.

 

I totally agree FrolickingFizzgig I'm an open-minded person and I watch a lot of TV shows, such as Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead, that push the boundaries when it comes to sex and violence, but I would never expect Star Wars to overtly stray into such territories. Story-wise, I could see them moving beyond the old confines of black and white morality. Indeed, one could argue they already have, as we briefly discussed with the Old Jedi Code and Obi-Wan's actions on Mustafar with Anakin etc. But when it comes to sex in whatever form, as the idea of gay characters has ruffled some feathers, I don't see it ever moving beyond the line the movie series has already defined for itself. Having said that, I feel I have to acknowledge the Luke and Leia kiss (although neither party was aware it was incestuous at the time) and Jabba lasciviously attempting to lick Leia while she was dressed in that gold bikini. Both of those moments are cringeworthy, but still pretty tame in the scheme of things.

I've had to stop myself reading the Kylo Ren redemption thread because of the continual insistence of some that he's a [that word we can't say] and the interrogation scene was akin to [that act we can't mention]. It is quite discomfiting to me, much more so than they insist the scene is, that people drew such conclusions from it. Same with those who seem to expect Kylo will further the Skywalker line by "taking what he wants" from unsuspecting and unwilling women. I didn't see any of that at all, and furthermore, I don't believe it was intended that I should. Star Wars isn't delving into that area, and thank goodness for it!

 

Haha clever

 

Thankfully, we got Mark and Daisy quietly saying "don't worry guys, you're not sickos" You can't get bigger support than that!

 

Diddy Minty

And Girls! When it comes to pushing boundaries of sex, Adam Driver's contribution is top of the chart. Even Howard Stern says that sex on Girls is something else.

rey09

Exactly! They appreciate all fans and won't take one side against another, unlike some fandoms.

 

I agree the thread does tend to over analyze things...

But that's for our pleasure as fans!

Personally I know I haven't posted any overly analyzed meta here... as like I said I am a pretty simple minded person when it comes to movies (book analysis is a different topic entirely)... But I hang out here as your opinions and metas are enjoyable and I always love group analysis...

Movies are my childish pleasure and I tend to watch with a blank slate of a mind when it comes to adventure stories. I'm a kid in the theater and I can honestly interpret what I see in a child's perspective and also an adult's...as I am psycologically unremoved from my childhood. (simply put, I think like a kid a lot of times)

 

Almost 800!

 

Nice!

And that's perfect for SW! because we tend to forget that those movies are primarily concerned with a message to kids. One can see that in TFA novelization for children. They made a special emphasis on forgiveness when Kylo killed Han. That tell you something about the direction the movies will be taking.

 

Indeed vaderito That Howard Stern interview is quite something and well worth a listen (if people haven't already heard it) and you don't mind the odd bit of cussing! https://www.howardstern.com/film/24...ge-star-wars-roleand-then-had-think-about-it/ I'm persevering with Girls as I only recently started watching it, but I must confess that I don't really like any of the characters on it. Still, nearly-naked Adam Driver is enough to sustain me!

 

Well, the writers wrote the line, didn't they? So yeah, the double-entendre was intentional. Ren was talking about taking the map, but as a mature audience, we can't help but think about something else when he expresses that. Children don't need to know the term double-entendre. Double-entendres are simply a phrases that offers two equally valid interpretations. The term applies particularly well here because double-entendres often carry one obvious interpretation, and another that is potentially "indecent", ergo: "You know I can take whatever I want." Does Rey know this? Yeah, he entered her mind already. Nothing indecent, but it can—and is meant to be—interpreted that way. JJ Abrams confirmed this when he was asked about it. The subtext is there because he wanted it there. He wrote it, he directed it. Filmmaking is an art form just like painting, sculpting or writing. It can be said that nothing that occurs on-screen is an "accident". Would you say that a brushstroke on a canvas was an "accident" (in landscape painting, let's say)? No? The same can be said of film.

I'm not a shipper. I don't read fanfiction... I dislike it very much as a matter of fact. I'm always objective. I analyze based on facts, not opinions, and not projections. I use this thread mainly to talk about Kylo Ren because many here have an appreciation for the character and the narrative. Ren and Rey's dynamic was interesting and bursting with potential for future development. That's mainly what this thread focuses on. I write analyses/thesis about these characters because the future of the story interests me, and I can see that that Rey and Ren have been positioned by the events of The Force Awakens to develop as characters against each other, through each other and with each other. That development could lead to many outcomes, and I'm open to most of them.

 

on my phone..so I apologize if the vid doesnt embed...

its a lyric video of Brighter than Sunshine by Aqualung

I like how it could represent Ben's thoughts on Rey if he does become Grey/Light at the end...

 

You are not alone!

I always liked Willabeth. Always. Although I also liked that we got a little taste of Sparrabeth.(They wanted a taste, right?) I also found it amazing that, in a fantastic love story they had a female protagonist in love with one man, still having desire for another man, and she was not portrayed as promiscuous. (In fact she was so pure and true that apparently she was loyal to Will while he was at sea). Cause that's the thing, people can desire other people, who are not their true love... Anyways, I thought the movie handled the two pairs perfectly. And Elizabeth didn't really want Jack... She wanted to be Jack, something that I can relate to.

I also liked Harmione. I was already too old for shipping, but I thought they were more compatible. The fault is Rowlings, really, who, writing from Harry's POV, portrayed so much of Hermione. Basically Harry thought too much about Hernione, noticed her too much, always found her, even in a room with many people, always noticed what she was doing... And understood her. And admired her. And always listened to her advice. So yes, it could have worked. But I noticed Rowling wanted Ron and Hermione, but, you know, to pair up a character with serious inferiority complex with an A type! I agree with J. K Ron and Hermione would need marital counselling or something... There's a passage where Harry and Ron give Hermione gifts. Harry gives a book she really wanted, Ron gives a perfume. Yuck, I guess I'm partial because I'd hate to get a perfume as a gift, but I think JK Rowling meant that he saw her as feminine or something , which again infuriates me, because not all women wear or like perfume. Anyways, I don't want to stir shipping trouble. Only years later I found out people argued over these things, silly people. At the time I was in a forum for older people, and the arguments were plot related only. And people guessed pretty much everything about the story that could be deducted from the previous material. The only funny thing in retrospect is that the "Harry is a horcrux" theory was always ridiculed and considered crackpot. See? Never ridicule stuff.

But back on topic, perhaps you think these couples are too nice and get along too well, as opposed to Reylo? That's why it's odd to ship them? I don't know, I think different couples have different dynamics, and different characters different energies. For instance, I think Harry "gets " Hermione, and vice versa. (Of course they work well as friend due to this same reason, but they understand and encourage each other). Now, Kylo "gets" Rey. So there is a similarity there.

Willabeth... I don't know. I find no similarities, except that they were not meant to be together, because they had different social classes, so there was a lot of conflict there. Nothing any close to antagonists, but I wouldn't say it's like Finn and Rey, for example, who would have no obstacles whatsoever.

I think in terms of shipping, or just enjoying couples, people can look at the superficial aspect, and at other aspects. Lots of people think Reylo is about the girl saving the bad guy, and it's not. We've discussed so much, it's about a girl finding an equal who can accept her in all her power and fury, who won't try to limit or contain her power.

 

citation on JJ please, because i dont believe he would hav e openly admitted to what you're saying. otherwise, i agree with most of what you're saying. the canon is what we have to adhere too and so far there is nil promiscuity on the front kylo, his actions, his conscious or subconscious. again, this is what people project onto the scene. i could take away from the scene where Rey doesnt want to be touched by Finn that she is a complete and utter man-hating woman, because the 'sub-text' or 'insinuation' is there. but theres something called confirmation bias and rational thought. they usually don't intertwine, and if they do, there's come cognitive dissonance at play. im not going to rationally say and/or come to the conclusion that Rey is a man-hating, hypervigilance suffering person. because thats just not rational when we are talking SW, its not relevant and its certainly not intended for the purposes of the story and/or character relations in-canon. its a very simple scene that is intended for the purposes of showing Rey overcome Kylo and turn the tables, while also adding to Kylo's long term insecurities in regards to losing. all this 'sub-text' talk is simply fan-fiction and projection, end of story. does it hint at a rapey Kylo? no.

in avoiding to speak in absolutes, the only thing "i" saw that could contribute to the idea that there's a blooming romance in Reylo, would be the maybe-maybe-not history that is hinted at between them and the scene where Kylo wants to turn Rey in the sabre fight. thats sub-text because he could be killing her, he could simply want to turn her for his own motives for power/taking down Snoke or even doing it FOR Snoke, however, there's the possibility he likes her, and wants to keep her alive for that purpose, which is explicitly a G-PG sort of thing, not a rapey/sexually charged motive/device manipulated and contrived by JJ who is yet (waiting on your citation) to have admitted to such implications when directing the film.

 

That picture of my granddaughter handing the Broscar to Leo DiCappribro is brosome!

 

In regards to shipping in other fandoms for me- things like Harry/Ginny or Ron/Hermione were obvious from the get go. However, I wouldn't say I 'ship' them at all since none of them really peaked my interest (I got Snape/Lily and Lupin/Tonks for that- that yes I called before they were canon) It is a weird disconnect I admit, but one that has shown up for me multiple times in fandoms.

That said, I am really good at calling endings and such. So have no fear fellow reylo-ers

 

Hey Obi-Wan!! Why did you leave Anakin to burn to death that was a mean thing to do and then take his saber to casually give it to Luke Skywalker

 

Yes!!! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! Harry noticed Hermione too much! But it can be taken to perspective as she is his female bestfriend. He will definitely think of her a lot as much as Ron... And Ron's actions towards Hermione always seemed little and inconsequential compared to what Harry did ... in 1, he ran to save her from the troll, 2 he was motivated to solve the mystery of the basilisk to save everyone but most importantly Hermione, 3 the Buckbeak Sirius rescue was a Harmione fest hahhaha, 4 Rita Skeeter doth ship them. LOL! I was soooo pleased with that article albeit it was a farce on their actual relationship. 5, the Grawp meeting did not include Ron, and Harry was there to concern over Hermion when she got knocked out in the Dept of Mysteries... When book 6 rolled by, thats when Ronmione was shoved under my nose unelegantly...and in 7, they were too busy hunting and fighting for me to consider shipping them, but Ron left and there was the Horcux vision HH kiss... lol.

Even in the movies, you can tell the production shipped them... All those scene cuts and angling and actor chemistry. Sigh..what a ship that was... but i'm cool now on where HP has ended...

I'm not much concerned about similarities between Reylo and Harmione.. They are totally different to me... which is exciting since ReyLo is totally different from anything i've shipped before... SasuSaku makes a close call...But we saw Sasuke as a good person before he turned... and anime is all about visuals, so the moment I saw Sasuke and Sakura on the same team, I knew endgame when I saw it.... ReyLo is far too left field like BethxDaryl... but its there nonetheless.

 

He was a little brohole!
Plus, I knew that one day my granddaughter would end up with it.

 

He didn't show only his "crossguard", ha,ha (but told Howard that he wouldn't mind so fingers crossed) but you can see all the rest. I'm confessing that I binge watched 4 seasons after TFA because nekkid Kylo, ha,ha. I know it's a thing ever since TFA came out. of course that fans are curious. Kylo is so overdressed to say the least and Adam is so under-dressed on Girls so one feels compelled to check out what's under all those layers.

yes, characters are unlikeable but I got into it and Hannah + Adam have fantastic natural chemsitry that I'm thinking very often whether they really simulate/act all that. Jessa summed him up perfectly :"Well, he looks like the original man". LOL.

Yeah, that's a really good interview.

Did you get to this episode? I can watch this scene forever.

 

No disrespect Rei of Sunshine but I don't personally see any comparison between Bethyl and Reylo. I despised the Bethyl ship with a passion because it literally ruined my enjoyment of The Walking Dead for a while. I stopped posting on The Walking Dead forum because just about every thread posted got infested with Bethyl stuff. I never got that ship at all. The hatred that got spewed out towards Caryl supporters (of which I am not one) and abuse directed at Melissa McBride was just awful. I realise that my perception of Bethyl was skewed towards the negative because of all of this, but I saw nothing on-screen to support a romantic interpretation of that pairing. Again, it is all a matter of taste and personal preferences. I guess the Bethyl comparison just rankles with me because of all the bad stuff I associate with it, and the fact I never saw a shred of evidence on-screen that it would become canon. Anyway, again, no offence meant.

 

I'm just noticing it now...But is Adam's head a bit small than average, or are his shoulders just wider than normal?

lol. sorry. But that physique tho

 

I was reading up on Fairy Tales a forest / woods and what they mean and I came across this.....

Because of the perpetual twilight of the forest, it is a liminal place of encounters with the imagination of childhood, the fairy tale world. Perhaps this is why fairy tales have sometimes been viewed by psychologists as "coming of age" myths. The forest represents the numinous world of the child's psyche, and the child, like Hansel and Gretel, has to fight her way past the witch or like Snow White, find spirit helpers such as dwarves to help her.

The hero is challenged to fight his own inner demons, usually in the form of sensuous women, but sometimes as a predatory Black Knight or dragon. The Jungian approach also supports the motif of the hero who loses his reason and rushes off into the forest, where he regresses into the wild man state until he is reunited with his lady. This is analogous to the problem of soul loss from the emotional reality of the civilized world, and the retreat into the forest to regain the soul, which is feminine in medieval allegory (von Franz 180). According to Heuscher, a psychiatrist specializing in myths and fairy tales, "The wood is a common symbol for the human being's loss or abandonment of previous values and securities"

Fairy tales are full of images of loss and abandonment; Snow White is cast out by her narcissistic mother into a dark and perilous forest, and Little Red Cap deviates intentionally from the correct path. Hansel and Gretel are rejected and cast out by unloving parents and once abandoned in the woods, cannot find their way home, becoming increasingly lost in the depths of the deep forest, where only a cannibalistic witch lives. Many fairy tales have a "house in the middle of the woods" motif. This is a house that is very different from the one in which the hero or heroine had previously lived outside of or "on the edge" of the woods, in civilization. But, it is a house they must encounter nevertheless, because civilization has thrown them .....Kylo Ren is the Black Knight....whisking little Rey away on his steed (ship)....after she ran away from her past.

 

His shoulders are definitely wider than normal (in a good way). They are huge. I'm always amazed at the size of his shoulders.

Little_Boots

This is so good, especially bolded. Ren and Rey indeed regressed to wild man state in the Star Killer forest. They were so animalistic.

 

This is the only way the story can go without being repetitive neverending circle of absolute good vs absolute evil with quick predeath redemption of a masked villain aside...I mean, people would still see it..it would be s spectacle. ...it's Star Wars, but that would not be epic in any case.....at least not for me....
I cannot unsee what I thought (know) I saw here with Rey and Kylo Ren....any alternative will result in my abandonment of the fandom.....
And Star Wars pipl....don't do that....I'm just too great to loose, hahaha