ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

The one I posted classified him as INFJ... and there was another tumblr user I saw who said he is most likely a ENFJ... Different perceptions give different results..but all of them pointed towards Kylo being Emotional(Feeling) and Judging. Those are pretty much his most obvious traits, as he is very emotional to the point of instability, and does act on his rash decisions without thinking(perceiving) it thoroughly. It's quite nice to disect his character like this! thanks for contributing guys.

Sangha Ren
hello fellow INFP! we make up 4% of the world's population. Lol.

Yes, Rey was such an extrovert! She was a wonderful social butterful, albeit quite the violent type of butterfly. She's been alone for a looong time, she's exhausted about it. Loneliness sucks up her energy reserves as much as it does to most Extroverts. You can see how much she craved company when she decided to keep BB-8. I think her wanting to be around people might affect her development in EP VIII possibly... I mean, she's been alone in the desert for most of her life, now she'll be training on an island in the middle of an ocean with a really grumpy, and emotionally baggaged old man. It would be nice at least if R2 stuck around, he's a rather talkative type.

 

My guess is that they added misdirection to the movie and the released screenplay to make people think that Rey is Luke's daughter by putting in vague action or dialog that can be interpreted in several ways. This difference is just one of them. The scenes often cited as people as 'evidence' of her being a Skywalker (or Solo) include:

1. Han giving her strange looks when Rey shows she knows much about the Millennium Falcon
2. Han giving her a pitiful (or sometimes interpreted as "guilty") look when she was marveling at the greenery on Takodana
3. Maz quizzing Han in a suspicious manner, "Who's the girl?" -- this isn't even in the book
4. Maz's stating the saber's previous owners, before saying "and now it called to you" -- two words -- "and now" -- that make the "it called to you" statement sound like a conclusion from a stated premise, when the book simply states it as a separate fact.
5. Rey answering "Luke" to Maz's "there is someone who still could" -- this is often misinterpreted that Maz was saying Rey's belonging is with Luke
6. Leia heading straight for Rey bypassing Chewie (in the book Rey walks to Leia)
7. (script) the "mother's embrace" -- they hug in the book but it wasn't characterized as such
8. (script) Luke not having to ask who Rey is (in Ahch-To) -- nothing like this in the book

However when you read the novel, either the action/dialog is absent or presented differently -- and always neutral to any suggestion of Rey's lineage. Incidentally, I asked Alan Dean Foster if he was aware whose Rey's parents were when he wrote the novel and his answer was he was not given any information about it.

 

Your signature! ahaha

 

So brilliant that you guys posted that Anidala photo. More evidence that Rey and Ren are inverted Anidala. Rey is dressed similar to Padme on Mustafar and Ren is, of course, gloved like Anakin and clad in dark. Of course, some people will say that's because they are Anidala grandchildren but c'mon! You don't emulate a famous romance if you are making a movie about related grandkids. Not to mention that Kylo's so much like Anakin in character, while Rey is nothing like Padme. Snow Fight is inversion of Mustafar where Rey starts out like knocked out Padme but then wakes up and takes Brobi1's role and fights Kylo. So, basically, sequels will be "what would have become of Anakin if Padme was alive". At the end of ROTS, Anakin thought he lost everyone he cared for. But if he knew that he didn't? Especially love of his life? I know that it's not exact situation cause Anakin and padme loved each other for years before events in ROTS. But the gist is that his bond was severed when she died while Ren still has his growing feelings for very much alive Rey to hold onto.

 

What are you talking about? The redemption arc is what has been foreshadowed. It's what Ren as a character has been narratively positioned for, therefore it is the simple answer. It is the straight-forwardness of Star Wars packaged up into a single, compelling storyline. I don't really think you get this at all. Writing is writing. Foreshadowing is foreshadowing. When something has been narratively positioned to occur through clever uses of dialogue and overt uses of characterization, that thing will occur. That's how writing works. That is the simplicity of writing. Simplicity does not = incompetence or laziness. Quite the opposite. The best writers will know how to use age-old tropes to present something in a new light, and that's exactly what they did between Rey and Ren.

This isn't Transformers. Please understand that. Star Wars has been hailed as high art since the 1980's. This tale was written as three movies that will ultimately fit together.

You're using symbolism in its incorrect definition as well. In children's storytelling a scar is a link, a connection. It implies unfinished business, not "attaching to a mask." It's beyond bizarre for a hero to scar her designated villain. His face is now representative of the two sides that are constantly tugging at him. The scar is no the mask, it is the symbol of the moment Rey nearly crossed the threshold to the Dark Side. It is the physical manifestation of their bond. Their dynamic will be the A-Plot, just like Vader and Luke's and Palpatine and Anakin's were before them.

At its core Star Wars is a tale of a hero, a villain and a mentor. And that's exactly what this is shaping up to be.

 

It had to be done

 

Yes, I've pointed that out before, and not only because I love the lightsaber innuendoes.

In the first leaked plot, there was a scene of Maz taking the lightsaber from the Knights of Ren. In fact, the movie would open with the lightsaber tumbling from space, and they'd be searching for the lightsaber, not a map (I wonder how much of it is true, though).

But it's very, very, very possible that the lightsaber has been in Kylo's possession, either cause he took it or cause Luke somehow found it and gifted it to his nephew. That would clarify a lot the lightsaber calling to her, and in fact, most of the visions are about Kylo.

 

lizzie_jo5 "Exactly, which i why i'm beginning to doubt the redemption arch. Star wars are simple movies not complex, independent and hard to understand ones. I mean if Kylo gets redeemed who will fill in as the main villain/antagonist of the trilogy? Who will fulfill the role of a villain all clad in black and wearing a mask ( like Vader and Kylo Ren ). He was scarred by Rey to permanently attach him to that mask I don't think the movies will leave much room for any relationship development tbh. Kylo will be obsessed with capturing Rey and Rey will be too busy opposing him to even start thinking about caring for him. I'm not trying to sound pessimistic but if anyone has any plausible ideas how it may play out, please let me know."

I wouldn't despair of a redemption arc because of a lack of an alternate villain yet. I'm not sure why people think that there isn't anyone viable to be the Big Bad if Kylo isn't it. Snoke is a huge bad guy, though we haven't gotten to know him well yet. Two movies leave plenty of room to develop him in all kinds of scary-enemy directions. He may not seem like enough right now, but that's because Force Awakens intentionally kept him in the shadows, in the form of a hologram, so that Kylo could be the bad guy.

Hux is also, in my opinion, plenty scary, though I suspect that he may meet an untimely end before IX. Still, don't forget that he has been shown as an antagonist balancing Kylo, which means that if Kylo goes towards the light, Hux will be left at Snoke's side to fill the vacuum. If Kylo and Rey are balancing each other, Kylo and Hux are doing so also. Hux is also a tall, handsome, scary badguy clad in black--fair where Kylo is dark. They are almost competing siblings. Hux has been painted as a pseudo-Nazi in terms of the imagery that surrounds him.

Phasma is grossly underdeveloped considering the amount of marketing she's had. We haven't seen her face yet (perhaps a fourth unmasking would have been too much for one movie), but the actress has been around too much for such a nothing character. She can step forward and be a baddy, too.

Luke is being weird and mysterious, and although I do not believe he'd be made a bad guy, until all the movies are out we won't know exactly what's going on with him.

We have no shortage of potential bad guys to replace Kylo Ren, and if The Force Awakens could wring so very much out of a very short amount of screen time for Kylo and Rey, I don't see any reason they couldn't develop a new bad guy and redeem Kylo at the same time. The stories will balance each other and comment on each other, ideally.

 

Also, there's Benicio Del Toro. He said in a Spanish interview last summer that he was going to play a villain in SW. Then he backtracked later, but my guess is that he's going to play some kind of a bad guy. He's so good at being bad

 

Kylo Ren is either getting redeemed properly or he is getting killed in ep. 8.....there is no middle ground here....a Vader rehash he will not be...
But ReyLo most definitely won't happen in 7-9....maybe later....but maaaan by that time I will probably already be married again with couple of kids....who can wait THAT long?

 

All of this. And another thing I forgot to mention, Ren isn't just the "villain". First and foremost he's the third member of the character trinity alongside Rey and Finn, and he's Han and Leia's son. You cannot forget this. He has already been taken out of the role of masked villain. He removed his mask. That's how it works. There are many, many villains to be developed—as AnneNeville pointed out. In fact, there are so many villains at this point it would be hard to even find a place for Kylo Ren, another reason he has been positioned for a redemption story, along with the million other reasons from The Force Awakens.

 

Exactly, there's Snoke!
Del Toro's character!

Lots of villains. Please not Luke.
I'm going to confess I liked some theories about evil Leia and Leia is Snoke, but I don't think they want do that with our beloved characters.

 

Its like Kylo is subliminally calling out for help maybe?

 

I actually think Reylo will happen in 9. In 8, I think there could be a tease, a weird interaction, something to change perceptions. Let's say he saves her, he declares his feelings, perhaps Rey learns about Kylo's past and he's not as dark as it seems... I think that's the development that would happen in 8. Nothing even close to them being close.

9 is the grand finale. Kylo will probably help defeat Snoke, that's when something can happen. Now I'm going to add to the sceptics. Trevorrow! Whose idea was to have him direct Episode 9?

I'm going to confess I don't even think Jurassic World is sexist. Traditional character gender roles were inverted. Woman is the tough businesswoman who doesn't care for feelings. Guy is all about relationships. The idea was not bad. The problem was the execution. And the director is all about execution. Anyways, they might still change their mind, perhaps the script will save Episode 9? I don't know.

 

He wont hide his face, his face now matches the "monster" he's supposed to be. I cant imagine him wearing it much anymore. He wont need a mask to look "scary"

This is Han and Leia's only son, he is the last link to the skywalker bloodline, They are not going to rip away Leia's husband and Son..just no way, people will not leave feeling happy and satisfied with this trilogy if that happens. I promise you there is enough time to develop redemption here, they have set it up. If they wanted him to become evil, they would have never, and I mean NEVER had him be weakened by killing his father. It would have strengthened him. But it did not.

 

There is no "either this or that" going on here. Kylo Ren is not going to die. Period. I have written so many posts about this topic... he won't be a Vader rehash at all, as in death-by-redemption. A redemption story and a three-second redemption moment are not the same thing at all. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire A-Plot of this Trilogy surrounded Ren's redemption, with Rey as the central figure and hero to guide the way. That's the A-Plot we have room for. That's the A-Plot that has been foreshadowed. That's the A-Plot that "rhymes", that "makes sense."

What do you mean it won't happen in 7-9? This is their story. This is their beginning, middle and end.

Exactly. Writers don't spend whole movies foreshadowing and setting up for one thing and then do another thing. That's not "daring" or "original" or "a super cool way to beat down tradition". It's the definition of bad writing. Retcon, discontinuity, plot-hole, all of it.

 

Rian is not writing IX. The Jurassic World writers are on script duty.

 

I'm posting in the redemption thread today, and I find I feel quite insulted by the attitude towards Rey as a victim. The exchange I am having now suggests that she cannot be "fighting" Kylo Ren in the interrogation scene just because there was no way that he could know that she was able to fight back.

But since when are fights only fights when they are between equals? As a small woman, I can tell you I've had plenty of men and women pick fights with me of some kind or another. Sometimes they have involved physical violence. More often, psychological or social "violence." No one has ever held back from fighting me because I am a small, waiflike, delicate woman. Nor because I am nice. Indeed, my perception is that bullies seek the vulnerable out. They don't want to battle "equals."

I take great pride in surviving these situations. I find myself (rather irrationally) livid by seeing Rey's battle discounted just because Kylo had no reason to assume she could fight back. Life doesn't work like that. It's not fair. Fighting back when you are outclassed is essential. The fact that Rey discovers hidden wells of power is exciting, but not necessary to make their "battle" ok. (It may be necessary to make any future positive relationship palatable, however, as JabbatheHumanBeing has posited).

I also find the perception that Rey was some innocent civilian to be puzzling and off-putting. She is an enemy combatant, not an innocent bystander. She has stolen information that the First Order wants. She has allied with a traitor Stormtrooper (although she thinks at first that he's a Resistance fighter, that is clearly an organization that is enemy to the first order at best, and perhaps perceived as a terrorist organization by the FO). She has chosen to deliver vital information to the "enemy." She is not unaware of the implications of what she is doing! Finn has made it clear how dangerous her choices are by the way he is running as far away as he can!

She is armed with a blaster and is shooting the heck out of the leader of the military force. If she didn't want to engage in the fight, she would drop her weapon, not shoot. She would hide, not fight back.

People are undermining her very brave, intentional choice. She refused the call to action in terms of the force, but she certainly didn't refuse to act against the First Order.

 

It's "ты" in the Russian translation too, however it doesn't sound intimate at all. IKylo's position is superior so he uses "ты" to those equal or inferior. The only beeing who is addressed with polite "Вы" by Kylo is Snoke. I don't think it really means something.

 

Star wars the OT and the PT may have been pretty simple and easy to follow because it was created by Lucas..the man who loves to have the characters say out loud their feelings:

"you're making me angry!" - WE CAN SEE HE'S ANGRY
"I HATE YOU" - WE ALREADY KNOW
"Anakin, you're breaking my heart" - you don't have to say that! It's obvious!

but after watching TFA, I can see JJ giving characters depth and layers and grey area, you don't do this if you want things to be clear cut.

He has a mystery box with this movie, it IS supposed to be deep.

 

My Russian isn't fluent, but that is the takeaway I got from listening to their scenes, too. The French may have supported the Force Bond with the translation choices, but I don't think the Russian version gave any supporting evidence at all.

 

Thanks so much for sharing this! Interesting where the characters from the PT and OT fit....
I'm an INTJ, so Palpatine/Sidious for me..... What can I say, the dark side suits me; the description they give really does fit my personality......

On another note, we know Mark and Daisy are going to be filming together, but I wonder where Adam is going to be filming, and who with? Does anyone know if they've announced or confirmed anything about the shooting dates for him, Del Toro, Gwendolyn Christie, or the actors who play Hux and Snoke yet? Maybe they are shooting their scenes a few months from now and keeping things tightly under wraps......

 

I had never thought it was a call for help coming from Kylo, but I am convinced the lightsabre belongs to him now, that is why Mazz said that it WAS Luke's, because now, it isn't his anymore, it is belongs to Kylo, who can't have it until he is worth it, but it is his. If help is coming to Kylo, I think it is the Force itself that sends help to him in the form of Ray, the one who will help him back to the Light. But what you say may hold some truth, because there is a force bond between these two and perhaps his pain is calling to her, his soul mate, so to speak, inavertedly crying for help. That would be beautiful and it makes sense.

 

At least the "story" is already written. Hopefully the story is good enough to make up for a potentially mediocre script. The overarching narrative is finished, the character arcs are planned, the Mystery Box is shut tight, all that. I also assume they will be getting help. No way Abrams and Johnson are going to stand by and let someone slander their hard work. There's just no way. Many, many people are involved in the production of these films. One less-than-perfect director isn't going to completely destroy what went into Episodes VII and VIII.

 

I agree with this - though in the real world, I find the torture of prisoners (even of enemy combatants) to be repugnant.

Also, as you mentioned, Kylo's decision to violently assault her mind, while she's restrained (which is the end of result of Kylo Ren hunting her down and capturing her) suggests to me that any possible future "Reylo" relationship would need to begin with Rey making a cool-headed decision from a positive of relative strength (relative to Kylo). Otherwise, it could be interpreted as submission to someone who formerly did her violence (while she was helpless), which would be unacceptable for a film of this size and influence, IMO.