ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Yep, the writers expressed that they had a lot of trouble bringing Luke into the story because they found that no how they wrote his introduction the audience would lose interest in the new hero (Kira/Rey) in favour of Luke. They ultimately decided to introduce him at the end, and it worked wonders. People love the new characters, but this ordeal has alienated older fans of the franchise, especially those who were very emotionally invested in the EU. They still want a story about Luke's wife and kids, but it doesn't look like we're getting that at all. Just about all the writers and key actors have expressed that this is Rey, Finn and Ren's story now. That is the story the writers behind this Trilogy decided to tell.

People need to accept that Kylo Ren is going to be a huge focus of this Trilgoy. The Force Awakens was very much centred around him. Yes, it was about finding a map and getting to Luke on Ahch-To, but every bit of information we received from the OT character trinity had to do with Ren in some way. Their characterization was all about the loss of their legacy child. Those who can't see just how vital Ren really is are in for a huge shock come Episode VIII when Luke is a mentor-figure wrought with unimaginable guilt over the loss of his nephew and best friend.

 

I do hear the wisdom of your words, but still think that a lot needs to be explained and shown in order to make the redemption believable...however I don't think that in 9 we will have a love story.....maybe just the begging? I really thing that they need to focus only on Ren's redemption arc first...but on the other hand there really isn't much from the FO/Snoke destruction story to do so the movie can focus more on the last Skywalker? .....I was probably spending to much time over st Redemption thread...but some of the points raised there are to be considered at least

 

It is definitely Han, everyone in this cartoon in is force heaven. I just don't understand why Han is on the couch. What is he doing?

Arcanah each part of this SAGA is in three parts, and ST will be also.

 

As a huge OT fan, I learned to let the OT trio go and what I wanted from this new trilogy. The torch has indeed been passed. SW is and has to enter new territory now and I'm pleased with the characters and actors they chose to do it and the direction they are going with it. So many possibilities.

 

Yes the torch indeed has bin passed. Passed 2 an unworthy (4 now) bunch. To make a baseball analogy, u don't let the rookie lead off at bat no matter how good he/she was in the minor leagues. U bat him 7th or 8th.

The fact that Rey may not b a Skywalker is icing on the "Dislike Cake"

 

i notice that too in majority of the fan theories, its like rey, finn and kylo become footnotes to luke's journey. this story is about the new generation and their journey and developments and how they interact with one another while thrown into choas and in the grander scheme of things. can you imagine if rey is luke's daughter, no doubt he will overshadow her because her story becomes his and his the one who will be telling it especially when you consider that rey's hero journey is exactly like lukes, so they end up merging as one and rey and her story get lost. that's why luke and kylo as uncle and nephew works, why kylo being han and leia's kid works. he contrast them a lot, he has his own journey and side of the story and so do luke, leia and han in relation to him, so its balanced, we are getting various viewpoints and interesting dynamic and tension where nobody gets lost but kylo is still front and center and i could say the same for finn as opposed to rey being a skywalker.

also on another note they wont be silly enough to rehash EU, we already have a story with luke, leia and Han and their kids and all their adventures , trials and errors. that story has already been told and it will always be there, 30+ years worth of it. i cant imagine they would redo the EU again except slightly different. they have a chance to tell their own story and make a new canon universe.

 

Objectively I cannot comprehend why any composer would shove the Romeo & Juliet love theme onto a bridal carry unless he knew the narrative between the two characters would go in a very specific direction. It even sounds awkward in the song. Williams draws attention to it with a bunch of rises and an extra chorus that almost sounds out-of-place. I distinctly remember noticing how strange the music was in that scene even the first few times I saw the movie. That 10 seconds of the song does not belong.

Just listen to how awkward and weird it sounds. 1:20-1:40.


Then there's the fact that Rey and Ren's themes were made from the chorus of Across the Stars...

I for one think the musical cues were extremely intentional and say a lot about where the writers are going. There are no coincidences like that in music.

 

This teaser looks like Episode8 will start exactly where Ep7 left off. However, the footage looks very dream-like to me and darker than what I remember Ep7 ended with. I think that Kylo is having a Force Vision of Luke and Rey on that island. Notice the music sounds like it's being played like in a dream and it's in slow motion. Luke looks more dangerous, the lighting looks harsher (of course they can change this later), but it does seem it's from Kylo's point of view.

I can see Ep8 opening with this scene making it seem like no time has passed and then cutting to Kylo in the bacta tank having these visions before he wakes up, or he's tossing and turning in his bed and several months have passed, his facial scar healed but he's been having these troubling Force Visions of Rey/Luke through the Force Bond. TPTB said that Kylo going into Rey's head and seeing the island will have major consequences (I can't remember if it was certified that the island was just a random island or AchTo in her head) but I believe Kylo will zero in on this island that he found in Rey's head and that will lead him to discover AchTo. Maybe Luke and Rey are already gone from there by the time Kylo gets there, attending the funeral of Han on Corellia (if it is his funeral). Depends on how much time has passed between episodes but I would think it would take at least a month or more to plan out/invite everyone and recover from the Hosnian tragedy.

 

I agree with this, but it's really sad that Ben has always been a misfit and the best he can expect is being let to live, although sicially shunned, either completetly or to some extent. I guess he probably was easy prey to Snoke because he was always introverted, somewhat isolated and never really belonged anywhere. This is the vibe he gives, it's difficult to imagine because his parents and uncle were beloved legedary heroes, but he seems terribly lonely and isolated, a real misfit.

 

I loved the OT and I'm even starting to appreciate the PT, but the torch has to be passed at some point. All great characters have to start somewhere. The new ones made a good start in TFA and we still have Luke and Leia.

Watching the prequels has reminded me how much I love Obi-Wan Kenobi. I guess I understand those who want Rey to be Luke's daughter because I'd like her to be related to Obi-Wan for the same reasons. But if she does turn out to be "Random" (I hate that label because when their story is told they won't be Random, they'll have names and a story) it won't make me like Rey any less or make me feel she's any less important.

With Kylo/Ben the ST has three Skywalkers, so it's still the same as it ever was in that respect!

 

I thought something similar, actually...but it would be hard to find an island on a planet, let alone in a whole galaxy. How would he know where to look? I guess he can start around where the missing piece is, find planets with water...maybe? That still seems kind of a stretch.

 

WIN

 

@ FrolickingFizzgig

Yes! Yes!
This is the kind of evidence I need to restore my Faith

But it still bugs me that one thing that JabbatheHumanBeing raised
How Ren engages her mind knowing that she can't resist him but he still does it regardles I try to justify it with a fact that he desperately NEEDS the map, but the fact that we DON'T know why he needs it is what is causing my concerns, I guess...that she does resist him eventually should null this....but it still kinda resonates in my mind....the fact he entered her mind against her will
This is way worse than the tree, imo


Edit:
Off to sleep you all...been to the movies and watched Hail Caesar....still don't kniw what to think of it....I'm sure I almost fell asleep at one point at least

have a productive night!

 

Because this is Disney no heroine will ever end up with a hideous guy... that's why i'm scared for Kylo and his scar.

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Reylo as a conception is often misunderstood. Star Wars is a coming-of-age fairy tale. It's centred on love in its many forms. Anakin and Obi-Wan's brotherly companionship is as significant with regard to the idea of love as Han and Leia's epic romance. Finn and Rey's familial love is equally meaningful.

The suggestion that we're to see Rey/Kylo children come out of this is ridiculous. Rey and Ren are little more than children themselves. They have yet to come-of-age. Based on the introduction we were given in TFA, I can see Rey and Ren's connection evolving to surpass all notions of romantic and sexual love. They will come-of-age together. I'm not invested in Rey and Ren's character arcs or the overarching ST narrative because I want to see them make out or get married (I highly doubt anything of the sort will happen). There's something much more spiritual at play here. The energy that surrounds every living thing in the Star Wars universe seems to be binding them together. The writers established a riveting connection between their young female hero and their young male villain for a reason. Rey and Ren's relationship is without question going to be explored.

 

And guess what Darth Basin? YOU as an individual are ALLOWED to dislike Episodes VIII and IX. YOU are ALLOWED to think they're horrible films that send bad messages to children. YOU are ALLOWED to keep your money and refrain from seeing them. That is within YOUR RIGHT as a CONSUMER of the ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY.

I also love cake by the way. We made this thing called a fraisier cake at my culinary course and it was the most decadent thing you can imagine. I hope Episodes VIII and IX give us a real frasier.

Hideous? Because of a scar? Yeah, that's not how it works. He isn't covered in pustules or burns or cut to pieces. He has a scar across his face that was made by Rey. That scar is hugely symbolic and hugely important. It creates a physical link between the young man and the woman who dealt him the wound. She is responsible for his disfigurement... which by the way isn't going to look that bad, I promise. Disney doesn't care about a scar, especially one that was the result of their heroine nearly tapping in to the Dark Side.

And she could kill him -- right now, with ONE VICIOUS STRIKE!
But she stops. Realizing she stands on a greater edge than even the cliff -- the edge of the dark side.

 

Scars aren't hideous...imo, at least.
(I mean like everyone thought Zuko was attractive and he even had that ponytail for season one)

 

I know you tagged Frolickingfizzgig, but I think I can answer this question. It was said in Ren and Hux's interaction with Snoke that unless the map was obtained, the Ileenium System would be next.

Ren knows his mother is there and will likely die if the weapon is engaged again.

Given this, his tantrum in the interrogation scene following g Rey's escape makes complete sense.

 

Initial reaction is why would Ben be so foolish as to reject his loving family, etc. However, thinking on his character, I'm not surprised by Ben's isolation at all. I can imagine being so strong in the Force would make anyone half crazy or like a wild animal, not knowing if that was normal, how to control it, especially with an evil thing like Snoke twisting it for the child. He may have been saying and doing things that were all over the place, scaring Leia and Han who have had the shadow of Vader over them forever.
Leia was too busy, Han probably wanted to help but felt helpless because he never could really understand the Force (which is why Rey needs a force pairing but that's another topic ). I can see Han being very loyal and caring once he sets his mind to it. I can imagine him saying "Hey kid, we'll get through this, I know we will." and trying to help Ben as much as he can. Which is why I think something must have happened which drove Han to detach a bit from Ben. Probably Snoke's doing or something violent Ben did by mistake through Snoke's influence. It was out of Han's control and the only way he could deal with it was to fight with Leia and spend less time helping Ben (especially when he had NO idea about Snoke). Kind of sad that they brought the OT trio down like this but I guess they wanted to throw "realism" into it a bit. I can live with it. Han asked for forgiveness from Ben as he was dying so he was carrying a lot of guilt towards his son. We've seen Han run away from things in the OT but he usually came back out of loyalty/love towards his friends and later, the goodness of the Cause. But Ben's problem was way over his head and by that time Han decided how or to help him more, Leia probably sent Ben off to Luke to deal with and it was too late (She did say she lost Han when she sent him off), Snoke had embedded himself in Ben's mind. Poor Ben now had abandonment issues added to his looong list of issues.

 

He did enter without her letting him, I know people get upset about it but he does do this, he does it after he greedily says "I can take whatever I want" and then the next shot is him pushing his way into her personal space on the right of the screen Its like he couldn't contain himself, he'd been in her mind once in the forest and he couldn't wait to do it again.

She's not in pain because she is not fighting it, the pain only comes when you fight the probe<<<This all sounds awful doesn't it

Makes me wonder what the heck JJ was doing sometimes.

 

I thought this too! Since January, I've listened to the soundtrack every day during my 40 minute commute home from work. Before someone discovered the R&J reference, whenever this track came on I remembered cocking my head a little. I kept trying to figure out why it sounds so out of place to me. As a musician, I wanted it to just resolve. He spends so much effort building up this giant cadence (which is the musical term for rising action, leading to the grand moment, Rey's theme) and I'm like this is odd, doesn't sound like anything in the soundtrack anywhere else, why does it sound hopeful and almost romantic, she's being abducted for crying out loud, it should be scary and foreboding and tragic music.

I thought it sounded familiar but until I saw that post about R&J I just thought I was going crazy. John Williams would KNOW this is the exact same cadence, rhythm, instrumentation, and tone of that ridiculously familiar composition. Furthermore, he would KNOW that the audience would know it at least at a subconscious level. And to conclude, when I saw the film again and realized the exact moment it happened was when it cut to Kylo carrying her up the ramp as opposed to Finn yelling or running after her, I was pleasantly baffled. Don't call this a coincidence my dear friends. Film composers meet with the directors and producers themselves and do a spotting session, where they decide exactly when and where they want music, and what kind...and then the composer will go on to watch the scene at least 20 times while writing the music...then they edit it and sync it up to what's on screen down to the microsecond...it's all intentional...and a little frightening. In a good way

(working on writing an analysis about this and I've started researching/watching JW interviews, but I'm waiting until after the DVD comes out because there's a segment about John Williams)

 

Nothing wrong with Kylo having a scar.

It would be one of those "My grandfather had it, my uncle had it, I have one now too" Skywalker things.
Remember, cut off limbs and scars on the face run in this family. So nothing to worry about.
(unless Kylo's scar is hideous and diminishes his looks, which I don't think they would do)




P.S. Also you will notice that both Anakin and Luke have scars on the same side that Kylo received his scar. Deliberate symmetry maybe?

 

No doubt that his violation of Rey's mind is worse than the tree. With the tree situation, Rey raises her blaster (and remember, she fired on Kylo repeatedly on Takodana) and Kylo reacts defensively. In the torture chamber, he physically violates the mind of an unarmed prisoner.

 

In The Lion King 2 Kovu got a scar similar to the one Scar got(the main villain in the first movie)yet he ended up with Kiara.Kylo bring scared not only represents him being torn. Between light and dark but also Rey being very close to going all Dark.The writers and actors have said that the next movie will be darker and that they'll be taking more risks so I'm not expecting Rey to hold on to the image of adorable cinnamon role some people have put her into.Dhe won't be a real hero if she doesn't make mistakes so that could help her change her feelings towards Kylo and if she comes from a Dark origin that would make her relate to Kylo even more.