Full Series Darth Maul in Star Wars Rebels

If Darth Vader and Darth Sidious were the reigning official Sith Lords(Darth's in name), then Anakin accomplished that prophecy . While ' just Maul' provides the wiggle room around that whole thing created by Lucas of the end of the "Darth" titles although this is still far from certain with Darth Maul. This Snoke character is already a Sith Lord in all but name, and his Dark Side lackeys including Kylo Ren further provide the room necessary to work around it infact the whole Kylo Ren stuff is deliberately meant to mimic the Sith naming pattern tradition.


Filoni always compares fans to Sith Lords, with the dealing with absolutes when comes to continuity, I think its something he has to be mindful of but not feel bounded or confined by absolutely where it stops or hinders creativity. Lucas himself never really felt bound by his own stuff.


Besides:








Compare Maul's similar scene with Ezra to Dooku's torture of Savage to get him to lift heavy objects:



Seeing how Ezra has the strength to lift tons worth of stone more easily than Savage or even Luke an X-Wing, its clear that Maul found a worthy apprentice and why he protected Ezra from Kanan who would destroy the boy before he could turn to the Dark Side.

 

But Yoda himself refers to the dark side "of" the force. As in, the force has a dark side and a light side. It's not the force vs. the dark side - it's the light side vs. the dark side - they are both the force. That's why the idea of gray Jedi is so appealing to me - they let themselves get passionate about things, but they don't use the power that they obtain from those emotions for evil. So in essence, they use attributes of the dark side, but that doesn't automatically make them bad guys. The idea behind the Sith is that they crave power to rule, because they are completely selfish. The Jedi (at the beginning of the PT) had become so "selfless" that they made a rule that you couldn't even marry another person - which was not how the Jedi started. That's why I think that balance means coming back to the middle ground, like the gray Jedi did. Qui-Gin Jinn is often referred to as a gray Jedi, because he allowed the force to guide him through his emotions - which was why he wasn't allowed on the Jedi Council.

 

Not necessarily, no. For example, it is often said that people have a dark side to them, that doesn't mean that the rest is the ligtht side of them. It's the same for the Force : its Dark Side will fuel you, make you stronger through your most volatile emotions, but it will also corrupt you, twist you into something different, something you might hate. Just ask Darth Vader.

Grey Jedi should be Jedi period. People who can create bonds and attachments but don't let them cloud their judgement when it comes to it.

In the old EU, Yoda was said to have hated and loved more than anyone else in the entire Jedi Order yet still remained true to the ideals of the Jedi and their rules.

I wonder if that speaks to Ezra's power or to Maul and Dooku's differing teaching methods? I mean, Maul never tortured Savage as part of his training, he treated him rather well after he had made clear that Savage was to follow his vision.

 

If we're getting philosophical here, one could argue that the force itself has neither light nor dark, but that it's the people who wield it who have light or dark in them. Everyone has darkness and light in them, but it's what they choose to use that power for that determines their outcome. It's like at the end of TCW when Yoda was fighting his darkness. He couldn't ignore it, he had to embrace it as part of himself, but at the same time, deny it having any control of him.

But it's still the prevalent theme in Star Wars that the force itself has light and dark, IMO. If the dark side was not the force, then people who used the dark side wouldn't have powers. Even the nightsisters on Dathomir used witchcraft that pulled from the dark side of the force. It has many manifestations and can be wielded many ways, not just by the Jedi and the Sith.

 

Perhaps the Sith-holocron taught him. Maybe he is earning his living with a galactic-wide advertisement-campaign for a certain tooth-paste with Prequel- and Rebels-pictures to demonstrate how it good it works, i.e. bleaches.

 

The balance concept is one that I feel is unnecessarily complex.

Watching A New Hope, it seemed very much just a tale of good vs evil. The Jedi were good the Sith (though never called such) were the evil/dark knights, and it was as simple as the white knights of fairy tales triumphing over the evil knight/sorcerer/wizard.

Then the prequels introduced the concept that the Force requires "balance" and that destroying the Sith (the only Dark Side users shown in the films) would restore the balance. This concept really wasn't developed any further than that, and other sources like The Old Republic modified such ideas by saying things like the Force is naturally of the light side and that the Dark Side creates imbalance.

But then TCW was where the idea was developed more (as well as in associated commentaries) that the Dark Side does not create imbalance, it is a factor that needs to be balanced with the light side and it is even suggested in the Mortis arc by Father that too much light side is just as bad as too much dark.

There were/are quite a few instances out there where people would express confusion as to why destroying the two Sith would restore balance, while having thousands of Jedi that follow the light side wouldn't. And while it's fair to say "that's not how the Force works" I can see why the confusion arises. Because the Jedi follow one side and are associated with good. The Sith are associated with the other side and are associated with evil. So naturally, one might assume that light side = good, dark side = bad. But then years later Lucas clarifies that neither light nor dark is good, and either can be bad, if not balanced by the other.

I feel like the whole narrative is a work in progress, since even in Rebels, we get further elaboration from Filoni that the Jedi had been succumbing to the Dark Side throughout TCW. And so where as the Sith follow the Dark Side and the Jedi should have followed the light side, the Jedi themselves were succumbing to the Dark Side and thus were contributing to the imbalance rather than acting as a counterbalance.

Could Jedi and Sith exist in balance had the Jedi remained firmly in the light side? I don't know.

Around the time of the Mortis arc, there were comments from Witwer elaborating on the concept of balance, he was commenting that the Dark Side was a destructive force while the Light Side was a force for creation/rejuvenation (paraphrased). And that without the Dark Side there would only be stagnation since without death/destruction, there cannot be rejuvenation, and then when there is too much Dark Side, there is only despair. Whether his comments are worth anything in regards to canon, I don't know, but I'd assume that he had spoken to Filoni about the topic.

Filoni had also argued that one need not be a Force wielder to be Dark Side or Light Side, the Force exists between everything, and so even when someone like Tarkin destroys a planet, it has a strong negative impact in the Force that Obi-Wan can sense. Tarkin cannot wield the Force, but his actions can still influence it. Thus the Jedi I feel are a good force in the Galaxy that counterbalance evil, ANY evil, not just the Sith.

Lucas' narrative seemed to be that the Force would be brought into balance by Anakin by destroying the Sith. Yet Disney continued Star Wars and in TFA it is established very early on that without the Jedi there can be no balance. Thus while Anakin may have destroyed the Sith, there is still imbalance as evil grows unchecked.

As to how Maul fits into this concept, he may not be a Sith, but as evidenced by TFA, one does not need to be a Sith to create imbalance. And as Filoni had said, one does not need to even be a Force wielder to empower the Dark Side. But Maul is a Force wielder, and since Luke and Anakin never bring the Force into balance (or perhaps do so only fleetingly), I don't think Maul surviving indefinitely contradicts anything that TFA didn't already. Snoke is clearly old, he would have been out there pre- and post-ROTJ. He's now contributing to an imbalance regardless of Anakin's actions in destroying the Sith, and if anything, Snoke is only filling the vacuum that Anakin created. So I think the narrative that Lucas wanted to tell is effectively dead, since it's all one saga and the tale is continuing post-ROTJ. And yes, there is enough wiggle room in the PT to even say that the prophecy could have been wrong to begin with. Anakin did not create balance, which is what the Chosen One was supposed to do from the start.

The moment the prophecy goes out the window, then Maul can survive indefinitely, or even reclaim the mantle of Sith some day, should the writers want to go that route, since there's nothing that says he can't. It would contradict the prophecy, but the prophecy is already contradicted. Maz Kanata even makes it sound like the Sith, Empire and First Order are all part of a cycle in which the Dark Side rises and falls. One which may never end, but merely have calm periods.

One idea that Witwer had mentioned is that Maul is past his prime and is bitter about that. Filoni remarked that originally there was to be a line in which Ahsoka asks Maul who Vader is and Maul says that Vader is what Maul was supposed to be. In ROTS, when Dooku dies, Palpatine tells Grievous that he will have a new apprentice, one "far younger [and more powerful." There seems to be a value placed in youth. It was mentioned either by Witwer or Filoni that Maul is interested in Ezra because he is interested in having a legacy. In TPM he was young, he was supposed to be part of Palpatine's plan, he was supposed to continue his training and ultimately become the Sith Master some day. Instead he was defeated by Obi-Wan, the plan moved on without him, and each time he tried to establish a power base, Palpatine beat him back down. So the great life that Maul was supposed to have never happened. But he sees an opportunity to teach Ezra, to pass on his knowledge as a legacy that may manifest into something great with Ezra.

With the exception of Dooku (whose age Palpatine implies was a downside), we have old masters that take on very young apprentices. We don't know Palpatine's age at the time he killed Plagueis, but regardless he was already old by the time he is revealed to be a Sith and becomes Emperor. He hid his identity as a Sith for the bulk of his life. He achieved greatness, but it wasn't when he was still in his prime. Maul was in his prime but failed. Dooku was a plan B apprentice who was older than Palpatine. Then we have Anakin who Palpatine took great interest in since he was a child. He raised Maul from birth, got stuck with an elderly ex-Jedi for an apprentice, but ever since Maul's death had also been cultivating a young boy as a potential future apprentice. But then Vader doesn't turn out to be what he was hoping for. Vader was supposed to surpass Palpatine, and while Vader was the strongest apprentice available at the time, by the time of the OT, Vader is middle aged and a cyborg. He was no longer in his prime either. Then along comes Luke who is in his youth and has the potential to be what Anakin was supposed to be, and Palpatine is more than willing to throw Vader aside to train Luke. And when it comes to Snoke and Kylo Ren, we also see this pattern of aged master passing on knowledge to a youthful apprentice.

Maul's brief time with Ezra definitely left an imprint on Ezra as evidenced by the last scene of Season 2. And while it's unknown if they will ever cross paths again or if Maul will have any further influence on Ezra, I think it's clear that with his preoccupation with creating a Legacy, that if he does not cross paths with Ezra again, that he will still seek to take on an apprentice if a powerful, youthful Force wielder crosses his path in the future, unless Maul is killed before then.

Thus, I definitely think that he is solidly a Dark Side individual that is just as much of an imbalancing factor as any Sith, whether he considers himself a Sith or not. If Kylo and Snoke and the First Order create an imbalance, then Maul has the potential to as well, so long as he has the resources to create a legacy/impact.

 

The concept of balance is a Jedi concept, from their point of view. That doesn't make it correct. It's like how different religions perceive the world in different ways, all trying to make sense of it. The Jedi wanted the Sith gone and therefore that was balance to them, but in reality that created imbalance and room for Snoke and the First Order to rise. To get back on track I would love to see Maul come back post OT.

 

Well Lucas made it up as he went along, using various religions and new age stuff. Original Darth Vader meant Dark Father supposedly but there is not much evidence he had envisioned Vader to have been either Luke's or Leia's father at the very beginning -and he changed all of that to every Sith was a Darth this or that. Vader would thus likely come from invader rather than father unless the Emperor had a twisted sense of humor and plucked the form of father from the dutch language. Having the power of death itself is what the Devil has. Jesus had to die on the cross in order to destroy the Devil and save man.

The Light Side is the good side and the Dark Side the bad, the duality of the Force.



Even the Force priestess had many sides, some negative or evil. In fact the same thing holds in the Abrahamic religions, " I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."- (Isaiah 45:7 )

"“See, I [God] have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil.” - (Deuteronomy 30:15)

God created Lucifer who was once good and the brightest of all angels the most perfect, and cast him out to the earth along with all his rebellious angels once they sought to supplant the Lord. God gave us free will, but the Devil created sin. God simply allows for the the conditions to exist where sin was possible, but God remains innocent of the sins committed by man or even angels. But the Jewish teachings on the Satan the Devil are different, and the Devil is just an agent or messenger of (Malach? Malek? Malachor? Maul?) of God. Christianity's view on the Devil more mimics Zoroastriamism.


"Ahriman, Avestan Angra Mainyu (“Destructive Spirit”), the evil destructive spirit in the dualistic doctrine of Zoroastrianism. He is the twin brother of Spenta Mainyu, the Holy Spirit. Both spirits were created by Ahura Mazdā (Ormizd or Ormazd), the Wise Lord and supreme deity of Zoroastrianism."

Lucas was raised a Mormon, and they viewed Jesus and Satan as kinda brothers, both being the sons of God. And there is a few references to Satan as a "son".


http://www.mormonwiki.com/Satan



Mortis uses a yin and yang concept with the Jedi and Sith symbolism, which means that family practices the beliefs of both the Jedi and the Sith, and they may even even be a source for both, or just one piece of a puzzle . They changed the narrative of the Mortis once they deleted Revan and Bane, The Son became more a god-like a kinda Hades character rather than a victim of the Dark Lords corrupting him from the spirit realm. Filoni and Lucas later decided the Sith should not be spirits, thats basically their punishment for using the Dark Side.

Most of the Force stuff Lucas deliberately wanted as confusing I guess.

The stuff with Snoke is more confusing since on one hand he's supposed to be this powerful figure in the Dark Side, trained many apprentices, presumably long lived, yet very mortal. We know he's using Ben precisely because Ben is fulcrum point, an uneasy balance of the Light and the Dark and Snoke is using Ben for his powers and that once he's done with him he'll discard him which is very reminiscent of Sidious and all his apprentices. At the same time Snoke is transforming Ben into Kylo Ren even at that point by time in the movie and teaching him to be come this Dark Side warrior that mimics Vader but without Vader's weakness. But further still now that Rey has appeared Snoke was quick to want to discard Kylo for her , he was reaching out to her in the Force tempting her to destroy him because she was more powerful - but really only now that she rejected his temptation and seduction towards the Dark Side[his side] does he now want to complete Kylo's training which means he deliberately was holding back his training and knowledge and he more needs this warrior to destroy the future Jedi who could destroy him. Again all of this is a retelling of Luke, Anakin(Vader) and Palpatine(Sidious).

But there is in Star Wars an underline black and white theme of good vs evil.

 

I don't know how I feel about Maul tying together all the eras of Star Wars...

 

When was that thing made?

 

The picture? Just now. By me.

 

It's taken from the "Jar Jar is the key to all of this"

 

Maul needs to have a legacy...I do not see him living past the OT...and I do think it needs to be Obi Wan who kills him...but he needs to have a apprentice to carry on a darkside legacy (if not the Sith in name then in attitude).

 

I just hope he does something that effects the SW universe as a whole to justify brining him back.

 

Sorry for the double post mods but I just really wanted to share something.

So I was reading Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil and something someone said about the dark side really resonates with Maul. They said that if you let the dark side lead you to revenge it will destroy everything you hold dear and for Maul this holds true because of Talzin and Savage and even all of Shadow collective.

So hopefully Maul does not take Ezra because if you are close to Maul you end up dead or destroyed.

 

JNF:

Maybe that's exactly the development, Filoni and Lucas have in mind for Maul in S. 3. Maybe Ezra is Maul's turning point. And I remember the words in the Darth-Bane-Trilogy. But I find Sera's self-sacrifice someway useless. She just should have fled the Sith leading a new life. I hope Maul finds a better purpose.

 

Oh I agree Maul want just die without a fight. You must also have the sharpest memory ever.

 

I hope they release Maul's theme... it sounded like a new take on the Inquisitor's theme with a little Duel of the Fates mixed in.

 

Snoke is Maul's apprentice.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Once again good job!

 

That was really good, Devizz ! I especially liked your choice to use "I have waited so many years for my revenge, I can wait a little longer." as the last line. Great work!

 

Always did love that line.

 

I wonder what Maul would be like if he did not want "Revenge" on someone.