ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

it's what the movie tells us. goodbye.

 

Because they want to save that reveal for Episode 8

Because they were under attack and out of time. Also, it's possible Finn will find a Saber in another fashion. Heck Luke could end up giving Finn his old Green saber if Skywalker feels he no longer needs it, having passed beyond the use of such weapons

 

This is a false dichotomy...why would it have to be one or the other?

 

You're the one who quoted me initially, genius.

 

Tony I'm not sure what clip your talking about or what your referring to when you say that Finn "ends up doing it already". Are you referring my earlier question of why Finn didn't just pick up a riot baton?

As far as the lightsaber fight goes, I don't understand how you can actually believe that the sole reason for Finn having that duel was NOT to show a future Jedi take his first steps but rather to make the movie "more exciting".

Tony my man, have you seen the other Star Wars films? I know you have but let me just say it anyways: Never has a non-jedi protagonist wielded the weapon of a Jedi against a foe in single combat (unless they eventually grew into one), not once let alone TWO. But if you consider Hans encounter with the Tuan-Taun just that then fine.

We only ever see villains "steal" the sacred weapons and use it for their evil gains (GG in ep3, Pre Visla in TCW). What kind of message does it send to the audience, having Finn use the blade so much in TFA?

Instead of injuring Kylo Ren on the shoulder (ala Luke injuring Vaders shoulder in ESB) with Anakins lightsaber, why couldn't have Finn carried a blaster into the woods, shoot at Rens shoulder and then been pushed back against the tree forcing Rey to take up the saber and fight Ren? Because having Finn fight again would be "more exciting"?

Nah, imo JJ and Kasdan have to much respect for what it means to use the lightsaber in a Star Wars film. That Duel (however short) was a set up for a future fight in 8 and/or 9. Its meant to contrast his eventual rematch, so that we as an audience will see how far he came, once again...just like Luke Skywalker.



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Adept "You've admitted in another thread that you are no longer confidant Rey is Luke's daughter...so with that....why would the Saber call out to her?"

Because...

“Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens, but in the entire galaxy,”

" She’s a fighter, she’s infused with the Force..."

She ends up piloting the Falcon.

She ends up meeting Luke.

It's her story.

I'm not trying to do him down but to make Finn Force sensitive in VIII would just be a bit of a joke.

 

Disney giving us what would essentially amount to a reboot of the OT would be the biggest joke of all. The Jedi were once an order of 10,000. The ST telling the story of the rebirth of the Jedi Order not only through the Skywalker lineage but through new blood would not only be a breath of fresh air but makes complete sense considering the title of the last film. It wasn't called Return of the Skywalkers and while they're definitely at the forfront of the return of the Jedi right now, I doubt they're the only ones involved.

Thankfully LF and KK seem to understand that.

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There is nothing in this statement that makes Finn having the force a Joke. Anakin Skywalker is important not just in the context of one film but in the history of the entire galaxy. His actions changed the course of history. Yet, during his time he was not the only person with a gift for using the force. Kylo Ren has already left a mark on the galaxy and he is clearly not the only force user in his time either. One person having the force and being important does not mean other people having that same gift are superfluous.

In TFA we meet Finn before we meet Rey, and his decisions is the very first one that alters the fate of the galaxy. Rey is dead on Jakku without Finn deciding to leave the FO, and she's dead or worse at SKB without Finn's decision to mount a rescue. This is not a denigration of Rey, since Luke is dead multiple times in the OT without the intervention of characters like Obi-wan Kenobi, Han Solo and even Anakin Skywalker. It just shows that no matter your potential, you still need a help from your friends.

Now, I'll admit they don't have to make Finn FS to be an amazing character, but neither does Finn being FS somehow become a joke or take away from Rey's journey. It's just a reality of this universe that other people can have the power that Rey has.

 

Agreed, disagree, agree. Finn is a pretty good character, he's well written and well acted. However, to suddenly say that he was Force sensitive all along would seem a bit silly given where we are. And yes, other people can be Force sensitive but they are very few and far between which makes the meeting of two of them on the same planet in strange circumstances extremely unlikely.

 

Unless you know...it was the will of the force that brought them together and not just some crazy coincidence.

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I disagree, Finn turning out to be FS and only learning about it after waking from his coma makes perfect sense. Rey learned what she could do at a low point in her life....Finn learning about it due to being so close to death makes sense...and also gives both characters their chance to awaken without taking away from the importance of that moment by having two awakenings in one movie. Finn suddenly having access to a gift he can feel but can't control would be a wonderful challenge for him to deal with in E8

That just has 'Will of the force' written all over it. The two people most likely to take a stand against the FO and actually bringing them down meet one another, bond then meet a guide that helps them into a larger universe? Yeah...will of the force works just fine.

 

Because she had such a cosy, pleasant life before.

 

I said a low point, not the lowest point. Rey for the first time in a long time found someone that actually showed concern for her (Finn: Are you okay?) ...and now he is leaving her behind. Sure he asked her to come with...but that action still hurt, a lot and in that moment she hears the call of the force.

Now, let's get something straight. I Like Rey, a lot, and have gotten annoyed with people calling her a Mary Sue because she defeated Kylo Ren. I think it's been clearly shown that the force improves ones skills enough to justify her victory, especially considering Kylo was fighting wounded, and wanted her to join him as his apprentice. The goal is not to take anything from Rey, she's still very important, still a force using warrior...but none of that means Finn can't be talented in his own right, whether with the Force, a lightsaber etc.

Finn's scenes with the Saber are interesting because they didn't have to be shot as they were. The camera lingers on him holding the blade when Maz gives it to him. It again makes a big deal about him igniting the weapon for the first time, and he shows improvement as the fights go on. He starts out pretty clumsy and uncoordinated....and ends up tagging a man called 'The Jedi Killer' in the shoulder. Kylo Ren's got to have about ten years of saber experience on Finn and yet our former storm trooper manages a hit. Even injured this should've been a flawless victory for Kylo Ren..and yet it was not. Even Rey's fight afterward shows how impressive Finn's feat was, as she spends most of it running, never managing to hit or stalemate Ren....until she uses the force. This is not a denigration of Rey, but it does show how dangerous Kylo Ren is, and thus how much Finn has already improved since he first picked up the Saber.

I know some people think Finn's scenes were just there to have a bad ass lightsaber duel, but I disagree. ANH and ESB had one lightsaber duel each, and both had a purpose beyond looking cool. Same applies here, as I feel the duels are part of Finn's growth, allowing the audience to see where he starts, not his improvements, and in future movies be clearly shown how far he's come by how well he does, and the same for Rey in all honesty. If they just wanted a badass action scene, then having Finn keep the blaster and come up shooting would've worked just fine.

Daisy Ridley in an interview said she thinks Finn has some gift with the force.Whether because she wanted to do a shout out to her co-star, or because she was dropping a hint I can not say. Pablo Hidalgo quickly pointed out that other normal people can use a lightsaber....which is true....but doesn't actually discount Finn being force sensitive. Pablo came down on the Snoke=Plaguie theories...but hasn't shot down the Finn=FS theories....and it's not like people aren't talking about the idea. The closest we get is John Boyeaga saying he's not the Jedi of TFA, which is true, but again says nothing about where he's going since we have established the idea that not everyone with fs potential manifests it in a detectable manner (Leia for example). The entire situation being muddied by Daisy saying "I don't feel like a Jedi" despite an upcoming action shoot in Ireland.

So yeah, with all of this, I think Finn turning out to be FS is still on the table, and it's looking like we won't get an answer one way or the other for sometime yet.

 

The Theater Peckham now counts John Boyega as a Patron....and he apparently worked their as a kid....so someone posted a photo and of course...it was altered.

 

I meant there aren't any dead storm troopers around for Finn to loot for weapons

Because that's what it appears to be. Finn fighting TR-8R is a highlight of the movie, and they missed several opportunities to reveal Finn could use the force. It doesn't matter that a non-Jedi protagonist hasn't used a lightsaber before. The female lead has never been a Jedi before Rey, does that mean she can't or won't be? Everything is "that's never happened" until it does.

Finn didn't steal the lightsaber and use it for evil gains. It says he is a hero who will always fight when needed.

Rey tired to shoot Kylo, it didn't work. Finn knows he can't shoot Kylo, some he doesn't try. And yes it makes the scene exciting and creates build up to Rey finally accepting the weapon.

If they wanted to set up Finn as a Jedi, they would have gone about it much differently. You're assuming lightsaber are these sacred and weapon weapons only a few people can use, that's never been the case or stated in the canon.




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OK, so why did the writers have him use the saber in the first place? Why did he have to get his butt kicked twice using a weapon that he had no business wielding?

 

Excitement, suspense & story structure

It made the movie more exciting to have the extra fights. There was some suspense about when/if rey would get it and the structure of the story needs someone to transport it.


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*I meant there aren't any dead storm troopers around for Finn to loot for weapons*

There aren't any dead troopers around to loot because the writers didnt WANT there to be any, not because the idea didn't make any sense.

*Because that's what it appears to be. Finn fighting TR-8R is a highlight of the movie, and they missed several opportunities to reveal Finn could use the force. It doesn't matter that a non-Jedi protagonist hasn't used a lightsaber before. The female lead has never been a Jedi before Rey, does that mean she can't or won't be? Everything is "that's never happened" until it does.*

Yes, but at the end of the day, Rey still fits the pattern I'd described (future Jedi taking up the saber). If Finn really isn't FS and on the road to Jedihood, then that scene only serves to 'take away' from the importance of the lightsaber not bolster it. Finn using the blade would amount to JJ and Kasdan going: "Hey Finn isn't a Jedi nor will he ever be but we want to see a lightsaber fight!...lightsaber fights are cool!"


*Finn didn't steal the lightsaber and use it for evil gains. It says he is a hero who will always fight when needed. *

Exactly my point. Finn doesn't fit into the category I'd previously described which included the likes of GG and Previsla. The only time a non jedi character uses a lightsaber is when said character is a villain. The writers never have a non-jedi/non-future Jedi character battle with the blade in the films, because it would take away from the ACTUAL Jedi/Jedi hopeful. It deminishes the importance of such a tool.

*Rey tired to shoot Kylo, it didn't work. Finn knows he can't shoot Kylo, some he doesn't try. And yes it makes the scene exciting and creates build up to Rey finally accepting the weapon.*

*If they wanted to set up Finn as a Jedi, they would have gone about it much differently. You're assuming lightsaber are these sacred and weapon weapons only a few people can use, that's never been the case or stated in the canon.*

Lightsabers are weapons that anyone can use, yes. I could pick up a lightsaber just as I could pick up a samurai sword, even if I have zero training in the art of a samurai. But what does Obi-Wan say in ANH? "This is the weapon of a JEDI" not "this is a rare weapon used by those in the galaxy skilled enough to use it....a tool carried by every one from bounty hunters to imperial officers....though it actually originated as the weapon of the Jedi".

Once again, why have we never seen ANY character in canon use a lightsaber as their weapon of choice aside from villains who have stolen them? Why is it that only the FS have the potiental to build one? Because the message in Star Wars, the message GL wanted to convey and now Disney and it's story group is trying to convey is : "The Lightsaber is the weapon of a JEDI".

This is why Finn uses the lightsaber on Takadona when the writers having him use left over riot baton would have made more sense. This is why Finn takes up the lightsaber again in the woods in a duel that mirrors Luke vs Vader in ESB, when the writers could have had the scene play out differently. No one was forcing their hand yet they decided to have Finn uses the weapon repeatedly.



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The Fight doesn't last long enough, and the audience has no reason to view TR-8R as anything more than a dangerous Trooper so calling that fight a highlight is a stretch.

If the plan is reveal Rey's connection in TFA and Finn's connection in E8 then they missed nothing. In that case they simply wanted to give each characters reveal the attention and focus it deserves.

It kind of does. Lightsabers have been almost exclusively the domain of Force Users when in battle except for one very specific circumstance. Putting that weapon into the hands of a protagonist and having him use it to fight carries a lot of weight with the audience. It says something about Finn that he can use the weapon, and even the way the film is shot implies that weight. The writers and director know this, they know what people will think when they see Finn using that saber....and instead of shutting that discussion down like they did Plaguies = Snoke....they've side stepped it instead, implying there are things about his development in the future they do not want to discuss.

And if that had been the only time Finn used the weapon that might be the end of it...instead they had him use the blade twice and show clear improvement.

If they wanted Finn to be the only Jedi then they would've set it up differently...however that's not the goal. If you have two heroes and you want to have each attain the force along different paths and be revealed at different times then the current method is just fine. Rey get's revealed in TFA, Finn get's revealed later as part of his character growth.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber/Legends

You could accomplish the exact same thing by having Finn use a blaster at Maz's Castle. He clearly has one on his back and he's spent the scene on Jakku trying to find one to fight back. This would've been the perfect chance to highlight his skills as a marksmen and soldier....instead they had him use a lightsaber.

 

... to sell toys to little boys? It's hard to deny that a lot of the choices made for TFA were in the interests of merchandising rather than in service to the story.






Of course, this is not to say that it's DEFINITELY the only reason... but it is possible.

They might have wanted to make Rey the only jedi lead, like Luke in the OT, but been afraid of losing out on sales if they couldn't stock TFA toys of a male character holding the blue light saber. They might have been afraid of hurting the box office if they didn't release trailers of a male character with the lightsaber, or hurting box office if they did release trailers of a female character with the lightsaber. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the real reason they kept the true nature of Rey's role a secret before the film's release.

In any case... I think a lot of fans who feel like Finn didn't live up to his full potential as a character are latching onto the idea of him becoming a jedi because it's the quickest solution that comes to mind when you try to pinpoint what he could contribute going forward. Han was extremely popular after ANH, but you didn't have a multitude of Han fans calling for him to become a jedi in the sequel. The reason is because he was well-realized to begin with and didn't need the Force to make him relevant. He had the Millennium Falcon, Chewie, and his own compelling identity as a rogue to carry him forward.

Finn doesn't need the Force either, but he does need writers with a sense of imagination to make him as pertinent to the plot as Rey and Poe are despite not having a ship or even piloting capabilities. TPTB chose to leave him with nothing at the end of TFA, hopefully not because they're all out of ideas but because it ties into future plans for Finn that are worthy of his interesting backstory.

 

Ok, but what was the benefit for Finn?

 

@ alleyezonthedarkside. Could one not argue that non-jedi haven't used lightsaber a just because the writers didn't create those situations, not because the idea doesn't make sense?

And the marvel comics have been putting lightsabers into the hands of none Jedi.

Adept Lucas isn't make Star Wars movies anymore.

Just for the record, Wookiepedia also says maz gives Finn the lightsaber so he can give it to Rey, not because she saw something in him. Nor does it mention the force among his skills and abilities.

Your argument seems to be based on the idea that using a lightsaber makes someone a Jedi, or only force sensitive people can use them. The problem is those claims don't stand up.


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Kthru12

I see where you're coming from, but I have to disagree. Little boys might like it, but let's remember adults are a huge consumer of SW merchandise. A lot of people might not be interested in Finn's toys because he portrayed as a bit of a coward and he loses a lot of fights in the film. A non-FS character like Han on the other hand has the Falcon, Chewie and is portrayed as a capable hero.

I think they could've marketed Kylo as the only saber wielder and they still would've made a butt load of cash. You didn't need to market Finn with saber especially given he gets his butt kicked twice using it. I do agree on the writers putting more effort into Finn's character going forward. Poe has BB-8 and X-Wings. Rey has the Falcon, the staff, and the Jedi powers. What the hell does Finn have?

 

I think you are greatly over-estimating the back lash against Finn if he isn't a Jedi or never picks up a lightsaber again.

I think most people came out of the theatre thinking Finn was just a normal guy who used a lightsaber. Very few were bothered by it and the vast majority still liked the character.


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finn will never be a jedi.