ST Luke's Other Students/Did all the Jedi really die?

never heard of it.

is it the one where the jedi council distrusts anakin and he's made their pawn? the one where we knew that he'd murdered people? that one?

oh, so, the backstory is that ben secretly murders people and luke mistrusts him but not enough to leave him with the other apprentices. and then he drugs them so they are unable to defend themselves. or a batallion of stormtroopers and knights of ren and whatver else they can muster come and kill everyone?

and after this he *still* struggles to take out his father because he's still not quite evil enough.

and after all this has gone down at luke's and his history of murdering has come to light, his deluded mother *still* wants him back.

some backstory.

 

We don't know Kylo's full backstory yet, so comparing the two is not a very good idea. People seem to forget we still have two movies left. I highly doubt everything in TFA is going to end up being meant to be taken at face value. There is a lot we don't know and many curve balls that could be thrown.

 

We don't know the Timeline of events, but considering how fast Anakin went from hero to villain I can not discount a quick change.

Besides, he has a tray full of his victims ashes, a shrine to darth vader in his quarters and is directly responsible for a number of deaths on film....this is all consistent with the behavior described by Han.

 

Plus Vader wore an armor by necessity, Kylo wears because he thinks his grandpa looked cool, he's just a Vader wannabe.

His backstory seem pretty similar to Anakin's, what with a Palpatine like figure seducing him to the darkside since his childhood if we want to believe Leia.

 

darklighter99 yeah even the earliest rumors for Episode 7 stated that the villain was a "Darth Vader wannabe"

but on topic, before I read Bloodline I would have believed that he's been secretly training Jedi since his exile but now that we know that the 2nd Jedi purge happened at least 6 years before TFA I'm not so sure now, could still be possible just the number would be fewer depends on how Luke trains them. I'd like to think Luke isn't alone on that island

 

Since we saw huts, I think there's some kind of population unless it's abandoned or part of the Jedi temple.

 

Those that did live, went onto doing sales rep positions, they decided to go into life insurance careers, because they saw such death, and suffering and horror, it really grounded them and they no longer wanted to pursue the chaotic , threatening life of the force... rather wanted to help preserve and protect life. Most his pupils came to fear the force because of it's imbalance, chaos, unpredictability, power...

With a little force ability they were psychic and there for the perfect candidates to sell some one insurance.

Not all his students ended up selling life insurance, some turned to the dark side and became lawyers...

Luke doesn't like to take on new students because of those few who use the force for personal gain, profit, and he's afraid of further imbalancing the force, there being more lawyers in the world...

 

with all due respect, by the time he committed to the dark side, he'd already killed a village of people and he had beheaded a defenseless person on, you know request.

i'm all for relativism (i really am) but this is stretching it a bit.

it's not that i'm arguing his turn was inevitable but as an attentive audience, i think it was hard to miss that he wasn't doing great on the heroics scale.


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, how about ben prompted luke to use the dark side so luke found himself unable to continue training out of shame? that would explain the exile as well. and it would deffo destroy his work.

 

How about we quit trying to make excuses for kylo and quit trying to blame other people instead of accepting that kylo IS a villain in this story, and that he HAS committed evil acts.

 

My gut tells me they all were killed. Not a ton of them, but a significant number, maybe 10 or 12 Jedi padawans Luke had in various stages of training, all together like a commune. Han said Luke was training the next Generation of Jedi...Strange choice of words if it was just 1 or 2 students.

Who knows, maybe Johnson will throw us a curveball and have there be one student who survived Kylo's attack and fled, and has to be convinced to rejoin the fight against evil and he actually steps in and helps Rey and Luke at some point...but I doubt it. I think Kylo and the KoR snuck up and killed them all when Luke was away and they weren't ready for a fight.

 

All this tells me is just the same thing over and over again. That the people in charge of coming up with ideas are lazy and have no new or interesting ways to deal with how the Jedi would be around after the OT.

Do wish RJ just decides to go "**ck this" and have some remaining former Jedi still be around anyway though.

 

oh dear oh dear. i am not prefacing all my posts with, it was all kylo's fault.

my apologies.

 

Assuming there were 30 years since ROTJ to TFA, and that Luke's padawans were killed off 6 years before.

That leaves 24 years for Luke to find and train new Jedi. If you take 2 years for time after ROTJ when Luke started searching for his first pupils and establish a place for this new jedi academy that leaves 22 years.

Now, we assume that he learned from Yoda, and Obi-wan how to do it "the jedi way" i.e. get the kids at a very early age before they build bonds with their parents. Say they get them between 0-2 years old. That means that the oldest pupil that he had was probably Ben.

The oldest padawan at the time of the second jedi purge(TM) would've been between 22-24 years old, and most would be a lot younger.

Also most likely this could mean that Ben turned just as he was already ready to become a full blown Jedi, or just after he became a full blown Jedi.

If there were 10-12 students then it makes it almost necessary for Snoke and/or the Knights of Ren (or other padawans also turning to the dark side), to have been involved in the second jedi purge(TM), as there doesn't seem to be any way that Ben would've been able to overpower Luke and his padawan and the younglings.

Again, unless we throw away the PT and the way the Jedi have worked for 1000 of years. Luke's first Padawan would've been Ben. Luke would not have taken a second padawan until Ben graduated to Jedi.

So the most likely make-up of the New Jedi Academy circa Kylo's raise, would've been some younglings, and Luke and his Padawan.

Some believe Luke went into self-imposed exile because of Ben turning, but what if he went to exile not only because Ben turned but because Ben killed his padawan. Luke may also be reluctant to take a new padawan in EPVIII because of this.

Anyway, what I'm trying to point out is that there likely were not many students to begin with as there was no time enough to have several Jedi ordained to take padawans. Most likely what we saw in TFA is what we got.

A new Anakin (Rey) an old Jedi Master (Luke), and the two not-Sith dark users Snoke and Kylo.

 

darth_frared
At least you're thinking outside the box in that retrospect, instead of perceiving Kylo as a "Hulk Smash" baddie. There's a reason why they picked AD instead of any other Hollywood meathead. There's something more there with Kylo Ren/Ben Solo and I've said it many times it's going to be a "Whoa...." moment. But maybe not, just an opinion.

 

We also don't know at what age Luke's students were when they entered into training. Would they have been youngsters or would he have been willing to train anyone who was force sensitive regardless of their age?

 

If we go by the EU the first force users Luke runs into are exJedi/ExHand. Its really not until Leia has children that he starts using young children, everyone else is a teenager/young adult then those first Knights begin the true recruitment.

I think Luke would try to find any Jedi/Force users around to learn from and possibly ask to help him start his School.

What if Snoke is an exJedi that Vader 'killed/left for dead' hence the scars?

Luke brings him on as a 'Force Theories' teacher were other ex-Jedi can be martial/practical teachers.

Snoke sees the Skywalker potential(remember Plagueis says that Force/Midichloran Potential doesn't automatically equate POWA ) . What I think happens Ben is 'big man on campus' he sees himself as Luke's successor for obvious reasons. He is the top of his class, the most gifted, sets all types of records.....

Then this girl shows up and starts blowing away all his feats...the jealousy starts to creep into Kylo's mind. Snoke who was already dabbling in the Dark Side prior to Luke finding him, notices and like Sheev with Anakin starts to play on the boys ego....

Possibly some are the same age as Kylo and are 'away'? (this will allow for more Jedi to 'appear in Ep IX) Or all we have are old Jedi and very young padewans.

 

WookieeRage thank you. at the moment i think it is actually his conscience that snoke uses against him. i think he's actually got very strong morals, i'm not sure how i can explain that, but i get the impression that he actually gives a toss about morals and he's been betrayed.



Granek why would he act the way he does around a girl he's met before?

 

It's like he didn't even care that Han said "he's using you, he'll crush you, etc." Almost as if he knew he was doomed or already knows, but for some unexplained reason, doesn't care. Snoke's claws are too deeply imbedded on Kylo for him to just be like, "Okay I've done bad, now i'll repent and come home with you Papa.". Whether that's from a display of power Snoke has shown Kylo and he's in too deep and scared or what have you. That's why my mind hurts all the time, it's like all the routes to the hilltop community being blocked every which way by Negan's group, except the roadblocks are the missing pieces.

 

I hope they'll reveal that some Jedi/students survived. Luke's Jedi already have the odds stacked against them since he's only just begun rebuilding them... to have however many all killed off just a few years before TFA seems pointless. A single Jedi can be a powerful thing, but they're not all equal to any task the story might have for them. Had Kanan popped up in ROTJ fighting some other battle, it's not like audiences would've said "Well, it's okay if Luke dies, because Kanan can go kill the Sith." No, he couldn't; he'd have failed. Only Luke (or Leia, perhaps) could've gotten thru to the good in Vader to get him to turn on his master, regardless of Yoda's statements that only a Jedi could stand against Vader & his Emperor. A Jedi may be required, sure, but not just any Jedi.

There are many ways around statements that Luke is "the last Jedi". We know from Padme in AOTC and Yoda in ROTJ that Padawans are not "Jedi". If none of Luke's students achieved Knighthood before the betrayal, some could easily survive without violating "the last Jedi" remarks. It could also be viewed as Luke being the last Jedi Master.

It reminds me a little of the way the Clone Wars were handled in the PT; we saw a bit of the beginning, a bit of the end, but that's it... here, we don't even really see the beginning of Luke's Jedi, we're just told he started them offscreen, and then they died offscreen. It's too much of a bummer.

 

There can still be a survivor or 2 from the massacre still alive while keeping Luke as the last Jedi.

The survivors would have to become ex-jedi.

It would be interesting for a survivor to be shown later, one who didn't fall to the darkside like Ben but gave up on the Jedi Path to avoid the First Order.

 

Maz Kanata says hello.